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It's not just about having a young daughter. People need to teach their sons that they shouldn't be putting their hands on women's waists and legs. That is the

by zasz 13y ago

It's not just about having a young daughter. People need to teach their sons that they shouldn't be putting their hands on women's waists and legs. That is the other reason to write blog posts on this--to make men aware that they shouldn't be doing things like this.

UnoriginalGuy 13y ago
I'm pretty sure everyone younger than 30 is well aware that such things aren't acceptable. In case you haven't noticed almost all cases are by people in their 50s or older who grew up in a different period and have different norms for social interaction. At least that is certainly the case where I grew up. You keep your hands to yourself (and typically leave it to women to initiate things since doing otherwise will often result in issues).
- acdha 13y ago
  > I'm pretty sure everyone younger than 30 is well aware that such things aren't acceptable This is a severely optimistic take. There is a generational aspect but the main problem is lack of respect and empathy and those follow no generational boundary.
  - Crito 13y ago
    I would identify lack of respect and empathy as the primary source of the problem, rather than lack of education. The issue is less "some people under 30 do not know that treating others that way is not acceptable" and more "some people under 30 _do not care_ that treating others that way is not acceptable" I mean, technically I suppose the empathy and respect may be something that you can teach, and if those are lacking then education aimed at raising empathy and respect needs improvement. However I think we are dealing with an issue that will be more difficult to resolve than just adding this material to high-school curriculum. Teaching empathy and respect is much trickier. (And with some people, it may be flat out biologically impossible (though google seems to be suggesting to me that researchers believe that psychopaths can choose whether or not they feel empathy, which is better than I suspected.))
    - acdha 13y ago
      I think we need cultural changes: teaching that is hard enough but almost impossible when some people provide an excuse shield anytime someone is called out on boorish behavior. This can't be an only in school kind of message - you have to see it actually practiced on a broad scale.
- DanBC 13y ago
  I really hope it is true that it's just a generational thing. http://www.newstatesman.com/glosswitch/2013/09/there-no-great-stigma-attached-being-rapist http://www.newstatesman.com/glosswitch/2013/09/there-no-grea... This article says that research shows young people having weird attitudes about rape. Maybe there are problems with the research; maybe the results would be very different if people were asked about the situation in the article. But to just say "this is a problem with older people" feels sub-optimal.
dictum 13y ago
From my observation, most parents teach their sons some euphemism-laden variation of the idea that they shouldn't make unwanted sexual advances—that they should be respectful to women, "treat a lady right" etc. Even if they didn't it would be irrelevant: when it comes to sex, teenagers and young adults are much more influenced by their friends and by culture at large. A music video has much more influence than mom being bossy again.
- rosser 13y ago
  Entirely speculating, but I think that's because a lot of parents avoid the Sex Talk until it's way too late. I think that if parents instill this kind of respect for consent at a much younger age, it will stick in the face of their children's peers' confused notions about what is and isn't okay. But, again, I'm just speculating.

by zasz 13y ago

UnoriginalGuy 13y ago

I'm pretty sure everyone younger than 30 is well aware that such things aren't acceptable. In case you haven't noticed almost all cases are by people in their 50s or older who grew up in a different period and have different norms for social interaction. At least that is certainly the case where I grew up. You keep your hands to yourself (and typically leave it to women to initiate things since doing otherwise will often result in issues).

acdha 13y ago
> I'm pretty sure everyone younger than 30 is well aware that such things aren't acceptable This is a severely optimistic take. There is a generational aspect but the main problem is lack of respect and empathy and those follow no generational boundary.
- Crito 13y ago
  I would identify lack of respect and empathy as the primary source of the problem, rather than lack of education. The issue is less "some people under 30 do not know that treating others that way is not acceptable" and more "some people under 30 _do not care_ that treating others that way is not acceptable" I mean, technically I suppose the empathy and respect may be something that you can teach, and if those are lacking then education aimed at raising empathy and respect needs improvement. However I think we are dealing with an issue that will be more difficult to resolve than just adding this material to high-school curriculum. Teaching empathy and respect is much trickier. (And with some people, it may be flat out biologically impossible (though google seems to be suggesting to me that researchers believe that psychopaths can choose whether or not they feel empathy, which is better than I suspected.))
  - acdha 13y ago
    I think we need cultural changes: teaching that is hard enough but almost impossible when some people provide an excuse shield anytime someone is called out on boorish behavior. This can't be an only in school kind of message - you have to see it actually practiced on a broad scale.
DanBC 13y ago
I really hope it is true that it's just a generational thing. http://www.newstatesman.com/glosswitch/2013/09/there-no-great-stigma-attached-being-rapist http://www.newstatesman.com/glosswitch/2013/09/there-no-grea... This article says that research shows young people having weird attitudes about rape. Maybe there are problems with the research; maybe the results would be very different if people were asked about the situation in the article. But to just say "this is a problem with older people" feels sub-optimal.

dictum 13y ago

From my observation, most parents teach their sons some euphemism-laden variation of the idea that they shouldn't make unwanted sexual advances—that they should be respectful to women, "treat a lady right" etc. Even if they didn't it would be irrelevant: when it comes to sex, teenagers and young adults are much more influenced by their friends and by culture at large. A music video has much more influence than mom being bossy again.

rosser 13y ago
Entirely speculating, but I think that's because a lot of parents avoid the Sex Talk until it's way too late. I think that if parents instill this kind of respect for consent at a much younger age, it will stick in the face of their children's peers' confused notions about what is and isn't okay. But, again, I'm just speculating.