4 ms·

> then a top-tier school would make you a 10 instead of a 9. Big deal. Ummm, there is a huge difference between a 9 and a 10. The horse that wins the race by

by xexers 17y ago

> then a top-tier school would make you a 10 instead of a 9. Big deal. Ummm, there is a huge difference between a 9 and a 10. The horse that wins the race by a nose wins 10 times more prize money than the second place horse. Was the 1st place horse 10 times faster? 10 times stronger? No, he was a nose faster - and it made a huge difference. Think about this in terms of search engines. are Googles search results 10 times better than Yahoo. Absolutely not, but they are a nose better and thats why we all use Google.

SwellJoe 17y ago
In both your argument and that of edw519, you accept that a better school (or any school at all) makes a better developer. I'm not sure that's necessarily the case, though I don't think going to a good school hurts, I'm not sure the people with a high level of passion and the right mindset for being a developer could very well be held back by a lack of schooling. In thinking back on the most effective developers I've ever known, there's a pretty wide range of backgrounds. Though I guess most of them do have some sort of university degree, not all of them were in CS and most were not top-tier schools.
- BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
  It's not the school, it's the fire-in-the-belly that matters the most. Some people are driven to excel. Their drive focuses all of their energy on whatever topic they are pursuing. They want to know their field better than anyone else. That's the person I want to work with.
  - SwellJoe 17y ago
    I think we can agree on that. The question is: is a "fire-in-the-belly" for getting good grades and getting into a good school and doing well at that good school (which, let's face it, involves many factors other than programming) correlated with a fire-in-the-belly for building real world projects? I can say with confidence that I've known serious over-achievers in school who went on to become non-achievers in life, and vice versa. In other words, I'm not sure that what school someone attended is a good indicator of their ability or their enthusiasm for the work. The more top-tier school alumni I meet, the less confidence I have in the predictive value of that data point vs. other data points.
    - BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
      People who have "fire-in-the-belly" will usually have something to show for it besides just good grades.
      - SwellJoe 17y ago
        This is why I like to hire guys with Open Source software on their resume. I can see it and know they are awesome. If someone doesn't have any Open Source on their resume, I also begin to wonder, "How much do they really love this stuff, if they only do it when they're being paid for it?"
        BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
        I can sort of understand this viewpoint, but there may be reasons why someone may not have Open Source software on their resume. I have worked in finance, and I am currently working on my Master's degree in financial engineering. A lot of finance-oriented companies highly value their code. Now, yes, there are projects like QuantLib someone can contribute to, but if you someone was hired directly out of school and had never contributed to Open Source, chances are you aren't going to find any Open Source projects associated with that person. That person's employer probably doesn't allow it. With that said, the other case may be that they simply don't have the time to work on anything outside of work. Again, Wall Street is like this.
kragen 17y ago
I just compared Yahoo's search results to Google's a week and a half ago. The difference wasn't large, but I switched to Yahoo Search. (I've never worked for Yahoo or Google, but lots of my friends work at both, and I have a Yahoo Search shirt in the closet.) http://canonical.org/~kragen/search-comparison-2009.html http://canonical.org/~kragen/search-comparison-2009.html
- barrkel 17y ago
  For a web search default, you generally want the least worst engine, unless you habitually check multiple search sites. Favour consistency over occasional excellence.
  - kragen 17y ago
    Only Bing failed completely (in my subjective opinion) in any case where any othe search engine succeeded. Google had a higher median score, Yahoo was the very best most often.

by xexers 17y ago

SwellJoe 17y ago

In both your argument and that of edw519, you accept that a better school (or any school at all) makes a better developer. I'm not sure that's necessarily the case, though I don't think going to a good school hurts, I'm not sure the people with a high level of passion and the right mindset for being a developer could very well be held back by a lack of schooling. In thinking back on the most effective developers I've ever known, there's a pretty wide range of backgrounds. Though I guess most of them do have some sort of university degree, not all of them were in CS and most were not top-tier schools.

BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
It's not the school, it's the fire-in-the-belly that matters the most. Some people are driven to excel. Their drive focuses all of their energy on whatever topic they are pursuing. They want to know their field better than anyone else. That's the person I want to work with.
- SwellJoe 17y ago
  I think we can agree on that. The question is: is a "fire-in-the-belly" for getting good grades and getting into a good school and doing well at that good school (which, let's face it, involves many factors other than programming) correlated with a fire-in-the-belly for building real world projects? I can say with confidence that I've known serious over-achievers in school who went on to become non-achievers in life, and vice versa. In other words, I'm not sure that what school someone attended is a good indicator of their ability or their enthusiasm for the work. The more top-tier school alumni I meet, the less confidence I have in the predictive value of that data point vs. other data points.
  - BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
    People who have "fire-in-the-belly" will usually have something to show for it besides just good grades.
    - SwellJoe 17y ago
      This is why I like to hire guys with Open Source software on their resume. I can see it and know they are awesome. If someone doesn't have any Open Source on their resume, I also begin to wonder, "How much do they really love this stuff, if they only do it when they're being paid for it?"
      - BrentRitterbeck 17y ago
        I can sort of understand this viewpoint, but there may be reasons why someone may not have Open Source software on their resume. I have worked in finance, and I am currently working on my Master's degree in financial engineering. A lot of finance-oriented companies highly value their code. Now, yes, there are projects like QuantLib someone can contribute to, but if you someone was hired directly out of school and had never contributed to Open Source, chances are you aren't going to find any Open Source projects associated with that person. That person's employer probably doesn't allow it. With that said, the other case may be that they simply don't have the time to work on anything outside of work. Again, Wall Street is like this.

kragen 17y ago

I just compared Yahoo's search results to Google's a week and a half ago. The difference wasn't large, but I switched to Yahoo Search. (I've never worked for Yahoo or Google, but lots of my friends work at both, and I have a Yahoo Search shirt in the closet.) http://canonical.org/~kragen/search-comparison-2009.html http://canonical.org/~kragen/search-comparison-2009.html

barrkel 17y ago
For a web search default, you generally want the least worst engine, unless you habitually check multiple search sites. Favour consistency over occasional excellence.
- kragen 17y ago
  Only Bing failed completely (in my subjective opinion) in any case where any othe search engine succeeded. Google had a higher median score, Yahoo was the very best most often.