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Why Dogecoin is Important
- novalis78 13y ago"Branding" or "narrative" as a differentiating factor for altcoins. Reminds me of Marscoin (similar to Litecoin) which competes on the meme of implications for the future of cryptocurrencies on a planetary scale.
- rebelidealist 13y agoAll jokes aside, LiteCoin & Dogecoin(a fork of litecoin) have usage advantage or Bitcoin because it's transaction confirmation is ~2-3 mins vs 15-20 min for Bitcoin. 2-3 min is still not ideal, but it makes it better for the retail environment. The confirmation period checks if there is any fraud in the transaction. Bitpay for example takes on the risk of Bitcoin's double spend fraud (sending the same bitcoin to two merchants simultaneously). If there are some way to reduce the transaction confirmation time to seconds, then alternative crypocurrency could be widely adopted in brick and motor retail.
- Sambdala 13y agoFor most purposes, the risk of a double spend is negligible, and it's perfectly safe to accept an unconfirmed transaction. However, there are still those purposes for which that's not a good idea...
- rebelidealist 13y agoHow would it be negligible? Seem like it can easily be done.
- nknighthb 13y agoIt's pretty easy to steal and use a credit card, doesn't mean a lot of customers do it. For low-value transactions, it's not worth spending much time on. You save that for low-volume high-value transactions.
- SwellJoe 13y agoWith no confirmations a double spend is easy (would require a custom Bitcoin client designed for the purpose). Is it likely? No. So, if I ran a coffee shop, I'd hand over the goods without confirmation. If I were selling a house or a car, I'd wait for a whole lot of confirmations. Digital goods probably don't need to wait, either, particularly for returning customers. So, yeah, I agree...I just want to be clear about why the risk is low: Because most people aren't going to cheat you out of a cup of coffee.
- natrius 13y agoTo elaborate, a merchant can easily monitor (or pay someone to monitor) transactions being sent to miners in real time. The probability of a successful double spend decreases drastically as the time since the first spend increases. If someone hasn't tried to double spend in ten seconds or so, they'll likely fail if they try.
- lappa 13y agoThis is simply false. Many mining pools allow you to push to transaction to them. If your first spend has a 0.0001btc fee and the second has a 0.001btc fee, they will choose the 0.0099btc fee. You cannot monitor transactions being sent to miners if they aren't propagated through the normal bitcoin network. Along with that, there have been cases where mining pools have doublespent unconfirmed transactions and stolen lots of bitcoins. GHash stole 3000btc from betcoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327767.0 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327767.0
- JohnTHaller 13y agoFor in-person, retail purchases, double spend is a big issue since waiting around for 10-20 minutes while the transaction is confirmed is unworkable.
- Smegger 13y agoA karmic based waiting period my be needed then; It could be based on age of address, transactions successful, repeat business with your address, amount of bitcoins spent per purchase, etc. With a higher score you could waive the waiting period for conformations or use less confirmations based on whatever algorithm you have. If some one is going to try cheating they probably won't be doing with and address they conduct regular business with.
- ksrm 13y agoSmegger, you are hellbanned.
- higherpurpose 13y agoSomeone suggested a way to fix that in Bitcoin, but I don't know if they're going to use this solution or not: > tl;dr: We suggest a protocol modification to the block chain that securely allows blocks to be generated around once per second, can handle over 200 transactions per second at these rates, and consumes under 0.5 MBps in terms of bandwidth (less at lower rates than 200 TPS). All of this with no increased susceptability to 50% attacks. This essentially solves the problem that caused Satoshi to set the 10 minute target for the block creation rate. We also analyze the number of transactions per second Bitcoin can handle with and without our modification. We note that block propagation times are the primary obstacle for scalability. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=359582.0 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=359582.0
- SwellJoe 13y agoNote that that lower confirmation time results in lower security for the network and higher susceptibility to double spend from a well-equipped mining operator. A lucky miner could capture 50%+ for 2 minutes a lot more easily than for 10. Satoshi didn't set the block time to 10 minutes arbitrarily. Network speed increases and increasing network hashing power and distribution make it less of an issue...but, the issue remains. Litecoin and Doge are less secure than Bitcoin in this regard and more susceptible to 50% attacks. Edit: It's clear I don't actually understand all the implications of this. But, all of the replies below me don't seem to either. I need to re-read the Bitcoin paper.
- fragsworth 13y agoA miner has the same likelihood of beating the rest of the network at N blocks no matter what the block duration is. An attacker in a 1-minute block network will have the same likelihood of winning 10 blocks (in 10 minutes) as if they were running bitcoin and won 10 blocks (in 100 minutes). However, in the 1-minute network, there are ten times as many opportunities in the same amount of time to attempt to perform this kind of attack. If I wait for 2 confirmations in Bitcoin, is this more secure than, less secure than, or equally secure to waiting for 20 confirmations in Dogecoin? The analysis is a bit tricky.
- dragontamer 13y agoIf an organization with 45% of the hashing power became malicious, it would be able to "double spend" 2 confirmations approximately 20.25% of the time. (the other 80% of the time, the 55% side of the network would "catch up"). For an organization with 45% hashing power to maliciously double-spend cross 20 confirmations, it'd have to win the coin flip 20 times, or 0.00001% of the time. Methinks the faster hash rate is strictly better from a security standpoint... especially when you consider players who can perform a near-50% double-spend on the network. (A large 30% player may go for a "double-spend" within 2 confirmations, and will be successful 9% of the time)
- drcode 13y agoWrong: All else being identical, a currency with 10 minute blocks will have a 10x mining difficulty than a currency with a 1 minute block. Lower mining difficulty = Easier to beat network. (Easier to beat PER BLOCK, no difference PER UNIT TIME)
- acangiano 13y agoWorldcoin (WDC) was created with retail in mind. Transactions are fully confirmed in 60 seconds or less.
- Bootvis 13y agoHow many confirmations do you really need for micropayments? I just ordered a pizza and it went through almost instantly without paying mining fees. Bitpay saw the transaction on the network and knows I'm not going to try double spending 15 EUR. EDIT To expand on that: the longer block times can actually be an advantage because the probability of orphans is smaller. If my transaction ends up in some orphaned block and is not resend the merchant won't get any money.
- tlrobinson 13y agoIt's well established that shorter block times result in less security per block, but it's also possible shorter block times result in less security per unit of time (given equal total network hashing power) This is due to the time it takes for newly mined blocks to propagate through the network. Miners work on old blocks a larger portion of time, leading to more forks and waste of mining resources. Of course Bitcoin has far more hashing power than Litecoin or Dogecoin anyway, since the hashing power will correlate with the value of the mining rewards. IMHO the real solution for both transaction speed and scalability is networks of "off-chain" transactions processors that occasionally "settle" on the blockchain. Of course such networks should retain the open and trustless properties of Bitcoin.
- crazydoggers 13y agoBitcoin can already support retail confirmation within seconds without risk of fraud. See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Point_of_sale_with_bitcoins_isn.27t_possible_because_of_the_10_minute_wait_for_confirmation https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Point_of_sale_with_bitcoins...
- zwieback 13y agoWell said. I'm glad Dogecoin injects some long needed humor into the tiresome earnestness of the BTC discussion.
- vezzy-fnord 13y agoIt seems as though it's more like heading on its way to substituting it. Instead of having a thousand opinions on Bitcoin plastered on the front page, it'll be about Dogecoin now. I'll hand it to these people: Dogecoin is one of the most successful culture jams in recent times.
- SilasX 13y agoIt's not (just) the humor per se, but how they're just so much more welcoming and friendly toward newbies. Funny comic about the relative seriousness of Bitcoin: http://i.imgur.com/4z9neQO.jpg http://i.imgur.com/4z9neQO.jpg
- interstitial 13y agoThis "tiresome earnestness" you speak of is commonly called "talking your book" http://www.investorwords.com/8436/talking_my_book.html http://www.investorwords.com/8436/talking_my_book.html
- inoop 13y agoHey, that's a pretty handy expression, thanks. It even goes beyond that though, Bitcoin enthusiasts actively downvote any negative stories on HN/Reddit because they don't want the price to go down. I can't remember the last time I've seen a fair and balanced discussion about the pros and cons of Bitcoin pretty much anywhere.
- davidgerard 13y agoAlso: Dogecoin fans make a point of behaving nicely. Bitcoin advocates are dicks.
- caruana 13y agoSo wealthy Ð 1,000,000 :) To the moon
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- SwellJoe 13y agoWhat is that, like, 800 bucks? High rolling.
- timdorr 13y ago$1800 at current rates, actually: http://dogepay.com/frame_converter.php?v=1000000&from_type=DOGE&to_type=USD http://dogepay.com/frame_converter.php?v=1000000&from_type=D...
- SwellJoe 13y agoWow. Doge has gone way up. I sold all mine at 50 satoshi. That may have been poor judgment on my part. I've mined another 20k since then, maybe, though, so all is not lost.
- ultimatedelman 13y agoi clicked on that link expecting an article with the above headline and a one-sentence body: "It's not." such disappoint.
- deleted_account 13y agoThis is like asking my employer to pay me in GBP instead of USD because their notes are prettier.
- mbloom1915 13y agoSO DOGE - WOW!
- Dirlewanger 13y agoThe currency's not even 2 months old and people are ascribing all sorts of importance to it. Not even in a year and it will be dead with all the other crypto-currencies. People get too sentimental about some things on the Internet sometimes.
- azernik 13y agoFTA: The long-term success of Dogecoin is beside the point. It doesn’t have anything close to Bitcoin’s developer backing. And basing a currency on an internet meme presents its own risks: for example, the joke might get old. Those are two of many reasons that Bitcoin will keep its lead for now. But it will be interesting to see where and how smarter branding gets incorporated into new efforts. It's not about whether Dogecoin stays big, it's about how cryptocurrencies can or should use clever branding to differentiate themselves, rather than just technical differentiation.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- crucialfelix 13y agoI think what is really important about it is the possibility of an endless series of temporary and largely speculative currencies popping up. This dilutes the brand of the entire sphere of crypto-currencies. It also raises serious questions for how much normal people should ever trust these currencies. Do you have to hang out on hacker news or r/bitcoin just to know if there are any issues with a currency ? That makes these currencies unusable.
- adrianwaj 13y agoPeople love their pet dogs, and many get more upset when a dog dies than a person. Don't underestimate the power of the dog image. Shibe is like a pet dog for a lot of people, it also promotes a giving nature, which is what the world needs, especially in cryptocurrency and finance, where central banks can print money for themselves at will. Also, many thousands of people saying "to the moon" together, you don't think that's going to have an effect on consciousness, especially when they visualize it as well? Crikey. There are big coins under threat, though. Because at the end of the day, they're all very much the same. Newcomers will want something they can relate to, and one that has opportunities and a future, and where they don't feel late to the party yet still supports them. Doge might fade, but not for ages and ages.
- sstoby 13y agoCan someone please tell me where to purchase Dodge coin?
- acangiano 13y agoBuy BTC first from a place like http://coinbase.com http://coinbase.com then exchange it to DOGE on exchanges like http://cryptsy.com http://cryptsy.com. Alternatively you can try http://reddit.com/r/dogemarket http://reddit.com/r/dogemarket but it's riskier.
- jmcqk6 13y agoIf all you want is a few doge, set a computer to mine for the afternoon. Even on a relatively weak computer, you'll end up getting a couple hundred doge. EDIT: I only do this as part of a pool. I don't know how it is for solo mining.
- esalazar 13y agoYou can also buy on ebay...with a markup of course.
- kbouw 13y agoI started writing a guide covering how to do this since at the moment, it's quite a pain with no direct USD to doge exchange. http://howtodogecoin.com/exchanges.html http://howtodogecoin.com/exchanges.html You need a minimum of 4 accounts and can expect it to take 4-7 days your first time through. But so worth, to the moon!
- elwell 13y agoWhen I see a title "Why [alternative currency prefix]coin is Important", I really see: "I have a substantial amount of [alternative currency prefix]coin, and I want to exchange rate to increase so I put out positive PR for it."
- username223 13y agoThat's the game: identify a population of suckers with spare cash, appeal to them with imaginary stuff marketed as "currency," and fleece them for all you can. Techno-libertarians and Russian mobsters? Bitcoin. People with free time to look for lulz on the net? Dogecoin. People stuck in a 60s science-fiction novel? Marscoin. Is there a -coin yet aimed at replacing multi-thousand-dollar fashion accessories as a way for rich men to get laid?
- MysticFear 13y agoIf you think of each coin, as a startup with a wide distributed team: Branding, marketing, customer service, and appealing to your customer are a lot more necessary than "developer backing" or technical features.
- bendoernberg 13y agoThis concept is called the Distributed Autonomous Corporation, and I think it's a very good way of conceptualizing cryptocurrencies. http://invictus-innovations.com/i-dac/ http://invictus-innovations.com/i-dac/
- ck2 13y agoBut it does have technical merit. To repeat what I said yesterday: 1. more coins for larger transactions instead of fractions 2. faster block rate (one a minute) 3. faster difficulty adjustment time (4 hours vs days or weeks) 4. faster reward halving time (every other month or so) 5. faster time to last block (mid 2015) 6. faster confirmations on transactions 7. random rewards So it's not just a meme-coin, it has advantages technically too. Their blockchain size is going to bite them though next year if not later this year. It is going to be massive and the client needs to only download block headers for performance.
- gnaritas 13y agoUnless they have the developer and cryptographer attention bitcoin has looking for flaws, a bunch of technical changes like that is not an advantage, it's a likely flaw that may make the coin less secure. Just because someone says this list of things make it better doesn't make it so, I seriously doubt the implications of those changes on security have received even a fraction of the attention bitcoin has received by those looking for attack vectors.
- crazydoggers 13y agoIndeed. In fact those changes are known to decrease security. Those aspects of bitcoin where chosen on purpose and for good reason. People seem to make it out as though the bitcoin developers didn't know how to make faster confirmations or quicker difficulty adjustments, and that the dogecoin devs discovered how to do it better. The truth is that the dogecoin devs decided to lessen the security in order to make the currency more attractive on the surface, even thought it undermines the stability of the coin in the long run.
- makomk 13y agoArguably Bitcoin was a lot more conservative than it should've been in terms of stuff like the speed of confirmations, though, and in practice this has actually reduced security since all the popular payment services accept transactions with zero or one confirmations. With Bitcoin's sluggish design that's the only way to complete with the speed and convenience users are used to from services like credit cards and PayPal. (If anyone here hasn't paid attention to the technical details of Bitcoin, the number of confirmations is a lot more important than the total amount of time taken on them. A lot of Bitcoin proponents tend to argue otherwise in order to encourage people to use it over newer alternatives, but they're fairly unambiguously wrong and even Satoshi's original white paper explaining Bitcoin makes this clear.)
- grondilu 13y agoWell, it's important because it reminds people that anyone can create his own cryptocurrency. When shares of big companies will be exchanged with a cryptocurrency-like protocol, then we'll be in business.