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It is 'free' if you buy their PC. The same way Windows is 'free' if you buy a windows PC from any PC manu who doesn't allow you to take it off the invoice. It

It is 'free' if you buy their PC. The same way Windows is 'free' if you buy a windows PC from any PC manu who doesn't allow you to take it off the invoice. It is folded into the cost of the hardware at this point. So yes I can see what you're saying in terms of profits on the OS vs another OS. But it is not free (as in beer) exactly.

Argorak 13y ago
No, OS X is also free if you upgrade in contrast to windows.
- ItendToDisagree 13y ago
  Not really a good comparison given that OSX 'upgrades' are available on a yearly (sometimes bi-yearly) basis. Which is about the same time span as Service Packs which are free. And you've still paid for the hardware, which is where the price is wrapped into, since about Snow Leopard. Not saying it isn't good (I am a half-time Mac user). But calling it 'free' is not entirely the case. I used to get pretty annoyed at having to pay for a new version of OSX from 10.2-10.5 every year or so.
- nkassis 13y ago
  Sure but he's pointing out that to get the free upgrades you had to pay for a license at some point that entitles you to free upgrades that Apple makes available.
  - Argorak 13y ago
    Which is also not true. I never payed for OS X, like as a line item on an invoice. I do cover the cost of manufacturing, as with _every other good sold for profit_ out there. I do cover the cost of the software on the hardware, but the same is true for about any device I buy. The thing is: Microsoft is trading software as a good. Even if I buy a machine with Windows, I can actually, in some legislations, ask for my license money back and my machine gets cheaper. So I didn't get Windows "for free". So their market is software and should be counted as such. Apple sells hardware as a good and doesn't ask for any fee for the software that comes with it. So that element is free. Even if I would ask for my money back, the answer would be "sure, here's your 0 Dollar". Yes, it is an accounting question, especially because in the Microsoft case, your vendor pays the fee for you immediately. You cannot buy an OS X license anywhere anymore.
    - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
      As you pointed out, you did 'pay' for the software, because its wrapped up into the hardware cost. My point is that it is not 'free' in that you can't freely download and install it onto a computer ala Linux/unix. You can not sell new computers with OSX preinstalled. That more or less defines that it is not 'free' when compared with an actual free OS. Not being able to buy a license without the hardware doesn't make it free. It just makes it tied to the hardware. There is still a EULA (End User License Agreement) and thus a License.
      - Argorak 13y ago
        The parent stated "free" (as beer). We're not talking "free" (as speech). And free as beer it is, it is never on a bill.
        ItendToDisagree 13y ago
        It is still paid for. As if you paid for an all inclusive meal at an establishment and received 'free' beer as part of the meal. Just because its not on an itemized list doesn't mean it is free.

Argorak 13y ago

No, OS X is also free if you upgrade in contrast to windows.

ItendToDisagree 13y ago
Not really a good comparison given that OSX 'upgrades' are available on a yearly (sometimes bi-yearly) basis. Which is about the same time span as Service Packs which are free. And you've still paid for the hardware, which is where the price is wrapped into, since about Snow Leopard. Not saying it isn't good (I am a half-time Mac user). But calling it 'free' is not entirely the case. I used to get pretty annoyed at having to pay for a new version of OSX from 10.2-10.5 every year or so.
nkassis 13y ago
Sure but he's pointing out that to get the free upgrades you had to pay for a license at some point that entitles you to free upgrades that Apple makes available.
- Argorak 13y ago
  Which is also not true. I never payed for OS X, like as a line item on an invoice. I do cover the cost of manufacturing, as with _every other good sold for profit_ out there. I do cover the cost of the software on the hardware, but the same is true for about any device I buy. The thing is: Microsoft is trading software as a good. Even if I buy a machine with Windows, I can actually, in some legislations, ask for my license money back and my machine gets cheaper. So I didn't get Windows "for free". So their market is software and should be counted as such. Apple sells hardware as a good and doesn't ask for any fee for the software that comes with it. So that element is free. Even if I would ask for my money back, the answer would be "sure, here's your 0 Dollar". Yes, it is an accounting question, especially because in the Microsoft case, your vendor pays the fee for you immediately. You cannot buy an OS X license anywhere anymore.
  - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
    As you pointed out, you did 'pay' for the software, because its wrapped up into the hardware cost. My point is that it is not 'free' in that you can't freely download and install it onto a computer ala Linux/unix. You can not sell new computers with OSX preinstalled. That more or less defines that it is not 'free' when compared with an actual free OS. Not being able to buy a license without the hardware doesn't make it free. It just makes it tied to the hardware. There is still a EULA (End User License Agreement) and thus a License.
    - Argorak 13y ago
      The parent stated "free" (as beer). We're not talking "free" (as speech). And free as beer it is, it is never on a bill.
      - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
        It is still paid for. As if you paid for an all inclusive meal at an establishment and received 'free' beer as part of the meal. Just because its not on an itemized list doesn't mean it is free.