5 ms·

"Insulting" might be the wrong word there. I would think it's more insulting to tell someone how to value their work. Perhaps, it's an unwise price if they're l

by xauronx 13y ago

"Insulting" might be the wrong word there. I would think it's more insulting to tell someone how to value their work. Perhaps, it's an unwise price if they're looking for millions of downloads, but I don't know. I think that in order to keep pushing the iPhone toward a real gaming platform instead these ADHD spin offs and in app purchases, we need more of the big boys to price things at a sustainable price tag.

scardine 13y ago
Value and price are distinct things. The value of anything is not the price the author think he is entitled to charge nor the manufacturing cost + a fair profit, it is the price people is willing to pay.
Karunamon 13y ago
There's nothing reasonable or sustainable about $16 for a 20 year old game. My immediate reaction is "Are these people serious?" followed by "What do they think they're going to sell me that a SNES emulator can't provide?" It feels like they're insulting my intelligence, in other words.
- untog 13y ago
  I'm not sure why the age would affect the value. Either it's a good game or it isn't. I paid for Grand Theft Auto 3 on my phone - is that too old to have value or is it still in the value zone? I'm confused. Now, SNES emulators are something else. It's worth pointing out that downloading ROMs is not technically legal. And (at least on the iPhone) you can't use one without jailbreaking your phone.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    Pong is a good game. It cost about $100 when it first came out. Would you pay even half that for a mobile implementation? As to the legality of roms, let's say I own a rather extensive SNES library (including every SE game available on Android). As far as I'm concerned, my conscience is clear. Nothing wrong with format shifting.
  - p_e_n_g_u_i_n 13y ago
    You don't need to jailbreak; although MacBuildServer is down now, there are still a few websites that will exploit the Enterprise License for you. This will be "fixed" in iOS 7.1 though. SiOS (https://github.com/lmmenge/SiOS https://github.com/lmmenge/SiOS) is a good SNES emu for iPhone, I did a custom build but that isn't necessary. I have no problem with downloading a ROM for a game I already own. Plus, you can't even prove I did it if I download it through a VPN and deleted it off my phone afterwards.
  - vinkelhake 13y ago
    Games do age. Something that was looked impressive 20 years ago will probably look very dated by current standards. Great games or not, trying to sell them at a price that is two or three times that of a "premium" game like Grand Theft Auto is ludicrous. The market has been conditioned to expect mobile games to sell for a dollar or two.
- Dysiode 13y ago
  A touch interface, for one. Emulates are find and all but I find their inaccuracy frustrating more often than not. Further, it's not just a 20 year old game on an emulator. Somebody has to port it, make graphics (for what they are worth), probably localize it. Sure it's not necessarily as hard as making a game from scratch (though that could be debated), but that doesn't mean the costs aren't similar.
  - Adirael 13y ago
    Are they actually ported? I've played Sonic games on iOS that were just emulators (awfully done emulators).
    - e_proxus 13y ago
      I think they're mostly just ported. I've bought a few of the Square games on iOS and they were just the normal games with touch capabilities added on top of the old menus. No usability changes at all to accomodate modern touch patterns. There are many "click" needed to navigate some menus, which would just have been one touch or drag in a modern app. Scrolling was also laggy and glitchy.
    - pawn 13y ago
      I have Final Fantasy 1 for my Nokia, and it's actually a port rather than an emulation. I haven't looked up the differences, but what I've found so far are: The interface supports tapping on characters rather than selecting them with the 'directional-pad' which appears on the map when walking around. There's at least one new area to explore. The magic system is more like later games, using MP. Graphics have been improved I'm not sure how many of these are ports from the DS version, though. Possibly all of them. Based on the screenshots of FF3 for Windows, it appears to be a port of the DS re-make rather than the Famicom original
- logfromblammo 13y ago
  They're not really insulting your intelligence. They are insulting your first sale rights, and your decision to buy the original game and not re-sell it later.
- kcbanner 13y ago
  Well, they are selling you the legal right to own and run the game.
jaegerpicker 13y ago
I'd gladly pay $16 for a NEW game of that quality but wrapping up an old game as a new product and trying to get that out of it? No, thanks. I love mobile gaming and I'm working on trying to build a company out of it but repackaging up old games for the new platforms does not advance them in the least.
- yebyen 13y ago
  We used to pay $50 for every new game, why do you want a new game for $16? I get it, most of the games are from $1 to $4, but I don't understand why. Either you pay $1-4 for a dumb little game with no depth, or you pay $16 for a quality of game that used to cost $50, when hardware was less advanced. Why?
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    Because it's not a new game. There is not $16 worth of value there. There is no new content. It is a straight port job with bad touch controls grafted on. I could have a superior experience with a SNES emulator. Further, depth of a game has nothing to do with price. False dichotomy. The choice isn't between cheap games with no depth and expensive games with depth, the choice is between high value and low value. There isn't a $16 value in what SE is putting out. There's not even a $5 value.
    - yebyen 13y ago
      > I'd gladly pay $16 for a NEW game This is what you wrote. I haven't been a gamer for a long time, other than some $2 and $5 games, so I'm on your side. I'm trying to understand why we're not interested in paying $50 for a game anymore. I have a stack of them at home, I paid $50 in 1990's and 2000's money for them. I agree that you shouldn't pay $50 for a rehash of some old game that was never designed for touch, on a platform that doesn't provide really any other options for input control. I'm just trying to understand why nobody is putting out NEW games that you would pay $50 for. Nobody is even targeting this price point. Is it because distribution channels are so much cheaper, and there aren't as many middle-men trying to take a cut? Is there some deficiency in the platform to explain why they /can't/ sell us games at the $50 price? I'm not talking about Candy Crush Saga. The consoles are still successful at selling new games for $50+. Nobody is doing it for Android or iOS as far as I can tell. Are we waiting for NVidia Shield and Ouya, or is there some other reason why nobody is producing for this platform any new, original games of high quality that you would pay $50 for?
mcdougle 13y ago
Do we really expect the iPhone to become a real gaming platform? I'm not being rude, it's an honest question. I don't see it ever becoming more, as a gaming platform, than it is now -- something to do to kill time while waiting in line or whatever else. I feel like the people who want a real gaming platform are, for the most part, more likely to go out and buy a full computer, an XBox, a Playstation, etc.
- Goladus 13y ago
  Or a portable game system (Whatever the most recent DS/PSP thing is). On the one hand it sucks to carry two devices on the other hand, many of the really good games are designed to be played with D-pads and buttons, not a touch screen and softkeyboard.
  - mcdougle 13y ago
    Actually, that's a good point. Maybe, for a smartphone to become a "real" gaming platform as stated above, it's not game titles we need first, but hardware. I know there have been Android phones introduced designed for gaming, and I think they flopped pretty hard (I didn't hear much about them for long). But maybe instead of a whole phone, a company could produce and sell a gamepad that plugs into the phone? Then they ("they" being the producer of the gamepad, and any companies that it enables to sell bigger titles) could target the DS/PSP/portable console market. Interesting thought.....
  - ANTSANTS 13y ago
    To be fair, most people use their 3DS/DS/Vita/PSP/whatever more like a tablet than like a phone. They're meant for curling up on the couch on a lazy afternoon (or, uh, as something to keep you occupied on the toilet...), not for whipping out in public while you're waiting in a queue. The low battery life of the newer handhelds seems relevant: iirc the 3DS's is around 3 hours, and the Vita's is comparable.
    - Goladus 13y ago
      I see people using portable game systems on the subway. But then whipping it out in public for 5 minutes at a time is not particularly conducive to the kind of deep games that we're talking about.

by xauronx 13y ago

scardine 13y ago

Value and price are distinct things. The value of anything is not the price the author think he is entitled to charge nor the manufacturing cost + a fair profit, it is the price people is willing to pay.

Karunamon 13y ago

There's nothing reasonable or sustainable about $16 for a 20 year old game. My immediate reaction is "Are these people serious?" followed by "What do they think they're going to sell me that a SNES emulator can't provide?" It feels like they're insulting my intelligence, in other words.

untog 13y ago
I'm not sure why the age would affect the value. Either it's a good game or it isn't. I paid for Grand Theft Auto 3 on my phone - is that too old to have value or is it still in the value zone? I'm confused. Now, SNES emulators are something else. It's worth pointing out that downloading ROMs is not technically legal. And (at least on the iPhone) you can't use one without jailbreaking your phone.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  Pong is a good game. It cost about $100 when it first came out. Would you pay even half that for a mobile implementation? As to the legality of roms, let's say I own a rather extensive SNES library (including every SE game available on Android). As far as I'm concerned, my conscience is clear. Nothing wrong with format shifting.
- p_e_n_g_u_i_n 13y ago
  You don't need to jailbreak; although MacBuildServer is down now, there are still a few websites that will exploit the Enterprise License for you. This will be "fixed" in iOS 7.1 though. SiOS (https://github.com/lmmenge/SiOS https://github.com/lmmenge/SiOS) is a good SNES emu for iPhone, I did a custom build but that isn't necessary. I have no problem with downloading a ROM for a game I already own. Plus, you can't even prove I did it if I download it through a VPN and deleted it off my phone afterwards.
- vinkelhake 13y ago
  Games do age. Something that was looked impressive 20 years ago will probably look very dated by current standards. Great games or not, trying to sell them at a price that is two or three times that of a "premium" game like Grand Theft Auto is ludicrous. The market has been conditioned to expect mobile games to sell for a dollar or two.
Dysiode 13y ago
A touch interface, for one. Emulates are find and all but I find their inaccuracy frustrating more often than not. Further, it's not just a 20 year old game on an emulator. Somebody has to port it, make graphics (for what they are worth), probably localize it. Sure it's not necessarily as hard as making a game from scratch (though that could be debated), but that doesn't mean the costs aren't similar.
- Adirael 13y ago
  Are they actually ported? I've played Sonic games on iOS that were just emulators (awfully done emulators).
  - e_proxus 13y ago
    I think they're mostly just ported. I've bought a few of the Square games on iOS and they were just the normal games with touch capabilities added on top of the old menus. No usability changes at all to accomodate modern touch patterns. There are many "click" needed to navigate some menus, which would just have been one touch or drag in a modern app. Scrolling was also laggy and glitchy.
  - pawn 13y ago
    I have Final Fantasy 1 for my Nokia, and it's actually a port rather than an emulation. I haven't looked up the differences, but what I've found so far are: The interface supports tapping on characters rather than selecting them with the 'directional-pad' which appears on the map when walking around. There's at least one new area to explore. The magic system is more like later games, using MP. Graphics have been improved I'm not sure how many of these are ports from the DS version, though. Possibly all of them. Based on the screenshots of FF3 for Windows, it appears to be a port of the DS re-make rather than the Famicom original
logfromblammo 13y ago
They're not really insulting your intelligence. They are insulting your first sale rights, and your decision to buy the original game and not re-sell it later.
kcbanner 13y ago
Well, they are selling you the legal right to own and run the game.

jaegerpicker 13y ago

I'd gladly pay $16 for a NEW game of that quality but wrapping up an old game as a new product and trying to get that out of it? No, thanks. I love mobile gaming and I'm working on trying to build a company out of it but repackaging up old games for the new platforms does not advance them in the least.

yebyen 13y ago
We used to pay $50 for every new game, why do you want a new game for $16? I get it, most of the games are from $1 to $4, but I don't understand why. Either you pay $1-4 for a dumb little game with no depth, or you pay $16 for a quality of game that used to cost $50, when hardware was less advanced. Why?
- Karunamon 13y ago
  Because it's not a new game. There is not $16 worth of value there. There is no new content. It is a straight port job with bad touch controls grafted on. I could have a superior experience with a SNES emulator. Further, depth of a game has nothing to do with price. False dichotomy. The choice isn't between cheap games with no depth and expensive games with depth, the choice is between high value and low value. There isn't a $16 value in what SE is putting out. There's not even a $5 value.
  - yebyen 13y ago
    > I'd gladly pay $16 for a NEW game This is what you wrote. I haven't been a gamer for a long time, other than some $2 and $5 games, so I'm on your side. I'm trying to understand why we're not interested in paying $50 for a game anymore. I have a stack of them at home, I paid $50 in 1990's and 2000's money for them. I agree that you shouldn't pay $50 for a rehash of some old game that was never designed for touch, on a platform that doesn't provide really any other options for input control. I'm just trying to understand why nobody is putting out NEW games that you would pay $50 for. Nobody is even targeting this price point. Is it because distribution channels are so much cheaper, and there aren't as many middle-men trying to take a cut? Is there some deficiency in the platform to explain why they /can't/ sell us games at the $50 price? I'm not talking about Candy Crush Saga. The consoles are still successful at selling new games for $50+. Nobody is doing it for Android or iOS as far as I can tell. Are we waiting for NVidia Shield and Ouya, or is there some other reason why nobody is producing for this platform any new, original games of high quality that you would pay $50 for?

mcdougle 13y ago

Do we really expect the iPhone to become a real gaming platform? I'm not being rude, it's an honest question. I don't see it ever becoming more, as a gaming platform, than it is now -- something to do to kill time while waiting in line or whatever else. I feel like the people who want a real gaming platform are, for the most part, more likely to go out and buy a full computer, an XBox, a Playstation, etc.

Goladus 13y ago
Or a portable game system (Whatever the most recent DS/PSP thing is). On the one hand it sucks to carry two devices on the other hand, many of the really good games are designed to be played with D-pads and buttons, not a touch screen and softkeyboard.
- mcdougle 13y ago
  Actually, that's a good point. Maybe, for a smartphone to become a "real" gaming platform as stated above, it's not game titles we need first, but hardware. I know there have been Android phones introduced designed for gaming, and I think they flopped pretty hard (I didn't hear much about them for long). But maybe instead of a whole phone, a company could produce and sell a gamepad that plugs into the phone? Then they ("they" being the producer of the gamepad, and any companies that it enables to sell bigger titles) could target the DS/PSP/portable console market. Interesting thought.....
- ANTSANTS 13y ago
  To be fair, most people use their 3DS/DS/Vita/PSP/whatever more like a tablet than like a phone. They're meant for curling up on the couch on a lazy afternoon (or, uh, as something to keep you occupied on the toilet...), not for whipping out in public while you're waiting in a queue. The low battery life of the newer handhelds seems relevant: iirc the 3DS's is around 3 hours, and the Vita's is comparable.
  - Goladus 13y ago
    I see people using portable game systems on the subway. But then whipping it out in public for 5 minutes at a time is not particularly conducive to the kind of deep games that we're talking about.