7 ms·

>The H1B issue is absolutely about providing cheap, endentured labour: visa holders are tied to their sponsoring employer and must appeal to be allowed to seek

by rgovind 13y ago

>The H1B issue is absolutely about providing cheap, endentured labour: visa holders are tied to their sponsoring employer and must appeal to be allowed to seek other employment This is plain wrong. You can very easily shift and people do shift. You just interview with a different company, just like a citizen would.

turar 13y ago
+1. H-1B transfer process is much easier than an initial H-1B application process, so moving to a new employer is almost just as easy as if you were a citizen.
emmapersky 13y ago
No, its not that simple. The new company still has to file a petition for H1B, its just not subject to quota like a first time H1B. its not hard but no way is it as simple as being a citizen.
- turar 13y ago
  Yes, but I don't think they need to wait for it to get approved. It's a formality.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    You are wrong. It needs to be approved, which can take months unless you pay extra for "premium processing."
    - tricolon 13y ago
      You are wrong. It only needs to be filed. See the underlined word "filing": http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/FactSheet62/whdfs62W.pdf http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/FactSheet62/whdfs62W....
      - caniszczyk 13y ago
        He isn't wrong. I've had friends that had their processing take much longer and go into a more detailed review which delayed them taking a job. You can also get your "H1B transfer" denied for the new job even if you're doing a similar job to your old gig
dredmorbius 13y ago
H1B throws all that much more friction into an already unequal relationship, tossing power further to employers. My preferred reform would be for H1B to be fully unrestricted. If you're going to allow labor into the country, let it compete on fully equal footing with domestic labor. For the reasons Smith articulates and you've either failed to read or are intentionally choosing to ignore, employers already have the upper hand. A better balance of power would be to repeal anti-unionization laws such as the Orwellian (100th anniversary of his death by the way) doublespeak "right to work" (really: "right to fire, and disrupt organization attempts") and ensure that labor has the same access to collusive collective action and mobility as capital and finance.
- marme 13y ago
  real changes that need to be made to h1b are the fact that they need to prioritize the h1bs to foreigners who graduate from US universities. Every year thousands of foreign PhD students graduate and go back to their home country not because they want to but because they could not get an H1B visa mostly because they wont work at the cut rate a person fresh from their home country would work for. These PhDs are trained with public funds because no PhD student pays their own way through school they receive public grants from the schools or other public entities that fund their research and their study. Americans just dont want to enter graduate school in the same numbers that chinese and indians want to and there is no problem with that as long as these people are not being trained just to go back to their country. They use US public funds to be trained so it is beneficial for them to stay in the US and boost the US work force
  - CGudapati 13y ago
    Is this true? I am from India and want to do a PhD in US. I thought the work opportunities of PhD gards is good.
    - mattlutze 13y ago
      It is very variable depending on your subject and research focus. Teaching opportunities are not good; there are far too many PhDs awarded compared to job openings for university positions. It may be a benefit for private industry work, but remember that a PhD is primarily about showing you can perform rigorous scientific research, and compared to a Masters, matters less (or not at all) in jobs where research is not the focus.
underwater 13y ago
On the E3 visa - and AFAIK the H1B - you can't be out of work for more than 10 days. If you're not confident you can find a similar salary (and have an approved LCA) within that time then that makes the idea of rocking the boat a little more scary.
- dmnd 13y ago
  I'm not keen to defend the ridiculous immigration system, but it's possible to avoid this risk in the following way: You can interview at, accept an offer from, apply for and receive a new LCA for another company all while continuing to work at your existing job. This means you have a new job and (preparatory documents for a new) visa set up before even giving notice and triggering the 10 day period. I know this from personal experience (on the E3).
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    That remains a constraint a permanent resident wouldn't have to face. More specifically: in a case where an H1B holder had concern for employer retaliation (say: working for a sketchy, illegal, or otherwise undesirable firm), and was looking for an option to leave (or possibly whistle blow), the fact that not having employment would be grounds for deportation within short order would be a constant threat. I've known many people over the years who've had varying levels of frustrations with emigration issues. Many spent at least some of that time as undocumented, what some like to call "illegal", including working without authorization. For others it was merely the frustration of waiting while an impenetrable and slow process worked its way, with several having to make unavoidable trips out of country to be able to retain eligibility, often leaving work, friends, family, and homes for extended periods (sometimes with greater levels of support and assistance). And this isn't just a DESI situation: Europeans, Canadians, east Asians, doctors, programmers, healthcare professionals, researchers, nurses. Most eventually settled in the US, some did not. All had a considerable toll taken on them.
    - dmnd 13y ago
      Oh, of course. I completely agree that the system is horrific. I only wanted to point out how one can minimize their risk if one is forced to interact with it.
Patrick_Devine 13y ago
Sure, but you can only renew the H1-B once (although you can get extensions). Also, most companies make it a policy to not sponsor you for a green card unless you've put in a year or two, and then once you apply for it they've got you by the balls. So every time you switch companies, you're starting the clock over again. This is even worse if a company brings you in through some other visa like a TN-1 or L1 (NAFTA and Intracompany transfer visa respectively), and then make you convert to an H1-B before they will sponsor you. A word of advice: Always use your own immigration attourney and not the one being paid for by your company. If the company is paying for it, the attourney represents the company, and not you.
- hpagey 13y ago
  Your statement " So every time you switch companies, you're starting the clock over again." is incorrect. After your i-140 is cleared and you have received your priority date you can port your i-140 and retain your priority date. Your clock doesn't reset per se.
  - jgh 13y ago
    Good information. "Port your I-140" though?
    - hpagey 13y ago
      Oops, good question. You port your priority date not your i-140. The new employer still needs to apply for a new i-140 with your previous PD. This way you don't lose your place in the queue.
      - jgh 13y ago
        Got it, thanks for the reply!
- minwcnt5 13y ago
  Your comment about TN makes no sense to me. TN is not an immigration-intent visa - if you apply for a green card while on a TN, you have to maintain an address in Canada and prove that you plan to return there. This is very difficult to do, and your green card will almost certainly be rejected and you might be allowed back into the US on the TN. So of course they make you switch to H1B before they'll sponsor your green card.
onetwofiveten 13y ago
I think you're being a bit unrealistic about how people behave. The H1B does give a lot of extra market power to employers because it means the employee has a lot to lose if things go wrong. The threat of being fired carries with it a much greater weight than for regular citizens. Sure, the employee can interview for another job and applying for a transfer is not a difficult process. But, even with another job, the threat of being fired is still a huge pressure. Plus, there's still a risk that the employer will find out they are looking for another job before they find one. Also, employees are unlikely to complain or make requests, since rocking the boat could get them fired and sent home. Most people are not risk takers and are not confident at being able to hide things.

by rgovind 13y ago

turar 13y ago

+1. H-1B transfer process is much easier than an initial H-1B application process, so moving to a new employer is almost just as easy as if you were a citizen.

emmapersky 13y ago

No, its not that simple. The new company still has to file a petition for H1B, its just not subject to quota like a first time H1B. its not hard but no way is it as simple as being a citizen.

turar 13y ago
Yes, but I don't think they need to wait for it to get approved. It's a formality.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  You are wrong. It needs to be approved, which can take months unless you pay extra for "premium processing."
  - tricolon 13y ago
    You are wrong. It only needs to be filed. See the underlined word "filing": http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/FactSheet62/whdfs62W.pdf http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/FactSheet62/whdfs62W....
    - caniszczyk 13y ago
      He isn't wrong. I've had friends that had their processing take much longer and go into a more detailed review which delayed them taking a job. You can also get your "H1B transfer" denied for the new job even if you're doing a similar job to your old gig

dredmorbius 13y ago

H1B throws all that much more friction into an already unequal relationship, tossing power further to employers. My preferred reform would be for H1B to be fully unrestricted. If you're going to allow labor into the country, let it compete on fully equal footing with domestic labor. For the reasons Smith articulates and you've either failed to read or are intentionally choosing to ignore, employers already have the upper hand. A better balance of power would be to repeal anti-unionization laws such as the Orwellian (100th anniversary of his death by the way) doublespeak "right to work" (really: "right to fire, and disrupt organization attempts") and ensure that labor has the same access to collusive collective action and mobility as capital and finance.

marme 13y ago
real changes that need to be made to h1b are the fact that they need to prioritize the h1bs to foreigners who graduate from US universities. Every year thousands of foreign PhD students graduate and go back to their home country not because they want to but because they could not get an H1B visa mostly because they wont work at the cut rate a person fresh from their home country would work for. These PhDs are trained with public funds because no PhD student pays their own way through school they receive public grants from the schools or other public entities that fund their research and their study. Americans just dont want to enter graduate school in the same numbers that chinese and indians want to and there is no problem with that as long as these people are not being trained just to go back to their country. They use US public funds to be trained so it is beneficial for them to stay in the US and boost the US work force
- CGudapati 13y ago
  Is this true? I am from India and want to do a PhD in US. I thought the work opportunities of PhD gards is good.
  - mattlutze 13y ago
    It is very variable depending on your subject and research focus. Teaching opportunities are not good; there are far too many PhDs awarded compared to job openings for university positions. It may be a benefit for private industry work, but remember that a PhD is primarily about showing you can perform rigorous scientific research, and compared to a Masters, matters less (or not at all) in jobs where research is not the focus.

underwater 13y ago

On the E3 visa - and AFAIK the H1B - you can't be out of work for more than 10 days. If you're not confident you can find a similar salary (and have an approved LCA) within that time then that makes the idea of rocking the boat a little more scary.

dmnd 13y ago
I'm not keen to defend the ridiculous immigration system, but it's possible to avoid this risk in the following way: You can interview at, accept an offer from, apply for and receive a new LCA for another company all while continuing to work at your existing job. This means you have a new job and (preparatory documents for a new) visa set up before even giving notice and triggering the 10 day period. I know this from personal experience (on the E3).
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  That remains a constraint a permanent resident wouldn't have to face. More specifically: in a case where an H1B holder had concern for employer retaliation (say: working for a sketchy, illegal, or otherwise undesirable firm), and was looking for an option to leave (or possibly whistle blow), the fact that not having employment would be grounds for deportation within short order would be a constant threat. I've known many people over the years who've had varying levels of frustrations with emigration issues. Many spent at least some of that time as undocumented, what some like to call "illegal", including working without authorization. For others it was merely the frustration of waiting while an impenetrable and slow process worked its way, with several having to make unavoidable trips out of country to be able to retain eligibility, often leaving work, friends, family, and homes for extended periods (sometimes with greater levels of support and assistance). And this isn't just a DESI situation: Europeans, Canadians, east Asians, doctors, programmers, healthcare professionals, researchers, nurses. Most eventually settled in the US, some did not. All had a considerable toll taken on them.
  - dmnd 13y ago
    Oh, of course. I completely agree that the system is horrific. I only wanted to point out how one can minimize their risk if one is forced to interact with it.

Patrick_Devine 13y ago

Sure, but you can only renew the H1-B once (although you can get extensions). Also, most companies make it a policy to not sponsor you for a green card unless you've put in a year or two, and then once you apply for it they've got you by the balls. So every time you switch companies, you're starting the clock over again. This is even worse if a company brings you in through some other visa like a TN-1 or L1 (NAFTA and Intracompany transfer visa respectively), and then make you convert to an H1-B before they will sponsor you. A word of advice: Always use your own immigration attourney and not the one being paid for by your company. If the company is paying for it, the attourney represents the company, and not you.

hpagey 13y ago
Your statement " So every time you switch companies, you're starting the clock over again." is incorrect. After your i-140 is cleared and you have received your priority date you can port your i-140 and retain your priority date. Your clock doesn't reset per se.
- jgh 13y ago
  Good information. "Port your I-140" though?
  - hpagey 13y ago
    Oops, good question. You port your priority date not your i-140. The new employer still needs to apply for a new i-140 with your previous PD. This way you don't lose your place in the queue.
    - jgh 13y ago
      Got it, thanks for the reply!
minwcnt5 13y ago
Your comment about TN makes no sense to me. TN is not an immigration-intent visa - if you apply for a green card while on a TN, you have to maintain an address in Canada and prove that you plan to return there. This is very difficult to do, and your green card will almost certainly be rejected and you might be allowed back into the US on the TN. So of course they make you switch to H1B before they'll sponsor your green card.

onetwofiveten 13y ago

I think you're being a bit unrealistic about how people behave. The H1B does give a lot of extra market power to employers because it means the employee has a lot to lose if things go wrong. The threat of being fired carries with it a much greater weight than for regular citizens. Sure, the employee can interview for another job and applying for a transfer is not a difficult process. But, even with another job, the threat of being fired is still a huge pressure. Plus, there's still a risk that the employer will find out they are looking for another job before they find one. Also, employees are unlikely to complain or make requests, since rocking the boat could get them fired and sent home. Most people are not risk takers and are not confident at being able to hide things.