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How little "offsite" can one get away with? Could you put a waterproof (flooding), fireproof, buried (tornadoes) safe with a NAS (SSDs for earthquake protection

How little "offsite" can one get away with? Could you put a waterproof (flooding), fireproof, buried (tornadoes) safe with a NAS (SSDs for earthquake protection?) in the barn in your yard? It would be easy to run Ethernet to that and have fully synced backups without ISP/cloud service charges. What natural disasters/events will take out both your home and the hardened safe in your barn? edit: An EMP may fit the bill. :-O

dredmorbius 13y ago
One problem with "fireproof" is that a safe that will protect paper records against combustion (by shielding them from the most intense heat and preventing oxygen from entering) will almost certainly get hot enough to melt plastics and render magnetic storage damaged if not unreadable. One of the characteristics of fireproof safes is also their ability to withstand a multi-story drop. The reason being that when the floor burns out from under it, that's what happens. This still doesn't do much to ensure data records are retained. So long as it's a barn in the yard, reasonably directional WiFi might well suffice. As for what natural disasters could take out your house and your barn: if you live in wildfire country, that's a distinct possible risk. As a random Google Image search example: http://www.mesonet.ttu.edu/cases/PitchforkFire_050811/20110508.html http://www.mesonet.ttu.edu/cases/PitchforkFire_050811/201105... Note the plot of 20cm depth soil temperature rise (and how long the temps stay elevated): http://www.mesonet.ttu.edu/cases/PitchforkFire_050811/meteo_PITC_050911.png http://www.mesonet.ttu.edu/cases/PitchforkFire_050811/meteo_...
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  Not always. Fireproof safes are rated for paper, tape or drives, as well as a time limit. A safe rated for drives will guaranteed a maximum of 55 degrees (C) inside it for the rated time, enough for drives to survive without problem when powered down. See: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/02/setting_the_iosafe_214_on_fire/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/02/setting_the_iosafe_2...
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    Fair enough. Much of my experience is pretty dated, to the beginning of the time that data storage was a major concern (and much of the data of the time would do just fine in a paper-rated safe). You do raise the point that fire ratings are for specific time limits: X minutes at Y temperature. Another key point (my long-ago sources informed me) is that one of the most important things to do after the fire is to NOT OPEN THE SAFE (this applied to paper storage, inquire with your vendor / manufacturer for data). The same properties which make a safe proof against fire damage mean that it retains heat once applied to it for a considerable period. Apparently it's not uncommon for people to employ a fireproof safe, secure their papers and documents within it, have the safe and documents survive the fire ... and then spontaneously combust when fresh oxygen is introduced on opening to the still-blazing-hot interior.
corin_ 13y ago
The issue there isn't that something unlikely will happen physically, such as an EMP, the issue is that a virus could take out it out at the same time as it hits your main machine, thanks to that ethernet cable.
blueskin_ 13y ago
Make the safe a Faraday cage.

dredmorbius 13y ago

One problem with "fireproof" is that a safe that will protect paper records against combustion (by shielding them from the most intense heat and preventing oxygen from entering) will almost certainly get hot enough to melt plastics and render magnetic storage damaged if not unreadable. One of the characteristics of fireproof safes is also their ability to withstand a multi-story drop. The reason being that when the floor burns out from under it, that's what happens. This still doesn't do much to ensure data records are retained. So long as it's a barn in the yard, reasonably directional WiFi might well suffice. As for what natural disasters could take out your house and your barn: if you live in wildfire country, that's a distinct possible risk. As a random Google Image search example: http://www.mesonet.ttu.edu/cases/PitchforkFire_050811/20110508.html http://www.mesonet.ttu.edu/cases/PitchforkFire_050811/201105... Note the plot of 20cm depth soil temperature rise (and how long the temps stay elevated): http://www.mesonet.ttu.edu/cases/PitchforkFire_050811/meteo_PITC_050911.png http://www.mesonet.ttu.edu/cases/PitchforkFire_050811/meteo_...

blueskin_ 13y ago
Not always. Fireproof safes are rated for paper, tape or drives, as well as a time limit. A safe rated for drives will guaranteed a maximum of 55 degrees (C) inside it for the rated time, enough for drives to survive without problem when powered down. See: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/02/setting_the_iosafe_214_on_fire/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/02/setting_the_iosafe_2...
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Fair enough. Much of my experience is pretty dated, to the beginning of the time that data storage was a major concern (and much of the data of the time would do just fine in a paper-rated safe). You do raise the point that fire ratings are for specific time limits: X minutes at Y temperature. Another key point (my long-ago sources informed me) is that one of the most important things to do after the fire is to NOT OPEN THE SAFE (this applied to paper storage, inquire with your vendor / manufacturer for data). The same properties which make a safe proof against fire damage mean that it retains heat once applied to it for a considerable period. Apparently it's not uncommon for people to employ a fireproof safe, secure their papers and documents within it, have the safe and documents survive the fire ... and then spontaneously combust when fresh oxygen is introduced on opening to the still-blazing-hot interior.

corin_ 13y ago

The issue there isn't that something unlikely will happen physically, such as an EMP, the issue is that a virus could take out it out at the same time as it hits your main machine, thanks to that ethernet cable.

blueskin_ 13y ago

Make the safe a Faraday cage.