6 ms·

What BS. There's no such thing as affordable housing - there's only housing you can afford. If you want to live in the Valley and can't afford it - then you c

by thrill 13y ago

What BS. There's no such thing as affordable housing - there's only housing you can afford. If you want to live in the Valley and can't afford it - then you can't afford it.

ryguytilidie 13y ago
Yeah this argument just kills me. I used to live in a $2k apartment across the street from Google SF. My rent got raised to $4300 because they knew Google employees would pay it. Did I go throw rocks at Google buses? No. Did I move to a place I could afford? Yes. The idea that me, as a startup employee making a decent wage can't afford to live there, yet thousands of people who are things like "artists and poets" are upset they can't afford it is absolute madness. The reason housing is expensive is because lots of people desire it, the idea that we should make sure to reserve places for people who can't afford to live there makes no sense at all.
- johnjlocke 13y ago
  And where do you suggest that all the other residents of San Francisco move? The street?
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    Well... the street is a pretty drastic first move. My first suggestion would be "some place you can afford." I've known several people that left the Valley (actually, California entirely) because they were finding it hard to afford stuff.
  - ionforce 13y ago
    You're making it sound like they are entitled to stay there. Just move to somewhere within your price range. Things change. Get over it.
  - ryguytilidie 13y ago
    I moved to Richmond. An engineer I'm friends with just moved to Pleasanton. Why should this well paid people be forced to move out of SF while we're creating low cost housing for artists? How does this make any sense?
- raverbashing 13y ago
  "the idea that we should make sure to reserve places for people who can't afford to live there makes no sense at all." Tell NYC that. I'm all for living where you can afford. But not everybody on Google is a high payed SW engineer. And there's not only top engineers/managers/designers living in a city. And for $4300 I can live in a very nice place even in other high valued cities.
- therobot24 13y ago
  While technically you're correct, it doesn't mean you're right. It's not so easy to uproot a family from their home and start new somewhere else. It's been stated several times in each of these discussions that many of those who can't afford the housing increase are the ones who've spent generations in the area. Pushing out area natives and alienating the poor for not 'living where they can afford' is no way to build a community.
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    I consider this to be little more than a testament to owning rather than renting. If people have spent generations in the area but are renting, then they were always living on borrowed time anyway. If you've lived there for years and own your flat, it makes zero difference what the housing market looks like today.
    - aeorgnoieang 13y ago
      That's not really true. Property taxes are usually assessed based on the value of the property and that rises with the housing market. People are sometimes priced out of areas even when they own their home.
      - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
        > when real property is purchased, the county assessor assigns it an assessed value that is equal to its purchase price, or “acquisition value.” Each year thereafter, the property’s assessed value increases by 2 percent or the rate of inflation, whichever is lower. This process continues until the property is sold, at which point the county assessor again assigns it an assessed value equal to its most recent purchase price. [1] If you have owned your home for awhile, your property taxes are not changing that much. Your assessed value starts with the purchase price and increases, at most, 2% each year. This house[2] listed on Zillow is a great example. It sold in 1973 for $32K. For the passed 40 years they've been paying property taxes based on the $32K plus ~2% increase each year (I'm not sure how far back that 2% max increase goes). In 2013, the assessed value was still down at $72K... meaning $997 in property taxes. That same year the house was sold for $875K. Now the assessed value resets to market value and the new property taxes will be like $11k rather than the previous year's $1K. So even though the housing prices skyrocketed around them, the previous owner of the house wasn't really effected by that increase. [1] http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-112912.aspx http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-1... [2] http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3245-Anza-St-San-Francisco-CA-94121/15095502_zpid/ http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3245-Anza-St-San-Francisco...
- krisdol 13y ago
  Your office janitors, cafeteria workers, street cleaners, waste disposal workers, coffeeshop baristas, taxicab drivers, bus drivers, teachers, day care workers, post office workers, food servers, chefs, etc. can't afford to live there. The reason you want to live there is because they made it desirable for you.
pete_aykroyd 13y ago
I think the concern is more with working class people who have always lived in San Francisco and could now get displaced, not with how much it costs for tech workers to live there.
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  Eh. What per cent are the people who spent their childhood in SF, and what per cent are those who showed up in the last ten or twenty years, displaced /those/ people, and are now outraged it's happening to them?
- Domenic_S 13y ago
  This just in: increased housing demand increases housing prices!
- oh_sigh 13y ago
  It seems like that is the landlords fault then, not the techies then. If landlords didn't want gouge by asking for fair market value for their properties, all of the old guard would still be living in SF.
MattSayar 13y ago
Reminds me of a quote my dad used to say all the time, that I strangely don't hear from anyone else: Whether you rent, or whether you buy, you pay for the space you occupy!

by thrill 13y ago

What BS. There's no such thing as affordable housing - there's only housing you can afford. If you want to live in the Valley and can't afford it - then you can't afford it.

ryguytilidie 13y ago

Yeah this argument just kills me. I used to live in a $2k apartment across the street from Google SF. My rent got raised to $4300 because they knew Google employees would pay it. Did I go throw rocks at Google buses? No. Did I move to a place I could afford? Yes. The idea that me, as a startup employee making a decent wage can't afford to live there, yet thousands of people who are things like "artists and poets" are upset they can't afford it is absolute madness. The reason housing is expensive is because lots of people desire it, the idea that we should make sure to reserve places for people who can't afford to live there makes no sense at all.

johnjlocke 13y ago
And where do you suggest that all the other residents of San Francisco move? The street?
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  Well... the street is a pretty drastic first move. My first suggestion would be "some place you can afford." I've known several people that left the Valley (actually, California entirely) because they were finding it hard to afford stuff.
- ionforce 13y ago
  You're making it sound like they are entitled to stay there. Just move to somewhere within your price range. Things change. Get over it.
- ryguytilidie 13y ago
  I moved to Richmond. An engineer I'm friends with just moved to Pleasanton. Why should this well paid people be forced to move out of SF while we're creating low cost housing for artists? How does this make any sense?
raverbashing 13y ago
"the idea that we should make sure to reserve places for people who can't afford to live there makes no sense at all." Tell NYC that. I'm all for living where you can afford. But not everybody on Google is a high payed SW engineer. And there's not only top engineers/managers/designers living in a city. And for $4300 I can live in a very nice place even in other high valued cities.
therobot24 13y ago
While technically you're correct, it doesn't mean you're right. It's not so easy to uproot a family from their home and start new somewhere else. It's been stated several times in each of these discussions that many of those who can't afford the housing increase are the ones who've spent generations in the area. Pushing out area natives and alienating the poor for not 'living where they can afford' is no way to build a community.
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  I consider this to be little more than a testament to owning rather than renting. If people have spent generations in the area but are renting, then they were always living on borrowed time anyway. If you've lived there for years and own your flat, it makes zero difference what the housing market looks like today.
  - aeorgnoieang 13y ago
    That's not really true. Property taxes are usually assessed based on the value of the property and that rises with the housing market. People are sometimes priced out of areas even when they own their home.
    - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
      > when real property is purchased, the county assessor assigns it an assessed value that is equal to its purchase price, or “acquisition value.” Each year thereafter, the property’s assessed value increases by 2 percent or the rate of inflation, whichever is lower. This process continues until the property is sold, at which point the county assessor again assigns it an assessed value equal to its most recent purchase price. [1] If you have owned your home for awhile, your property taxes are not changing that much. Your assessed value starts with the purchase price and increases, at most, 2% each year. This house[2] listed on Zillow is a great example. It sold in 1973 for $32K. For the passed 40 years they've been paying property taxes based on the $32K plus ~2% increase each year (I'm not sure how far back that 2% max increase goes). In 2013, the assessed value was still down at $72K... meaning $997 in property taxes. That same year the house was sold for $875K. Now the assessed value resets to market value and the new property taxes will be like $11k rather than the previous year's $1K. So even though the housing prices skyrocketed around them, the previous owner of the house wasn't really effected by that increase. [1] http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-112912.aspx http://www.lao.ca.gov/reports/2012/tax/property-tax-primer-1... [2] http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3245-Anza-St-San-Francisco-CA-94121/15095502_zpid/ http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3245-Anza-St-San-Francisco...
krisdol 13y ago
Your office janitors, cafeteria workers, street cleaners, waste disposal workers, coffeeshop baristas, taxicab drivers, bus drivers, teachers, day care workers, post office workers, food servers, chefs, etc. can't afford to live there. The reason you want to live there is because they made it desirable for you.

pete_aykroyd 13y ago

I think the concern is more with working class people who have always lived in San Francisco and could now get displaced, not with how much it costs for tech workers to live there.

FireBeyond 13y ago
Eh. What per cent are the people who spent their childhood in SF, and what per cent are those who showed up in the last ten or twenty years, displaced /those/ people, and are now outraged it's happening to them?
Domenic_S 13y ago
This just in: increased housing demand increases housing prices!
oh_sigh 13y ago
It seems like that is the landlords fault then, not the techies then. If landlords didn't want gouge by asking for fair market value for their properties, all of the old guard would still be living in SF.

MattSayar 13y ago

Reminds me of a quote my dad used to say all the time, that I strangely don't hear from anyone else: Whether you rent, or whether you buy, you pay for the space you occupy!