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Like many on HN, I'm not a fanatic MS guy (despite having a deep C# background) but I'm happy to see them do well this past quarter. They've only had a series
by ljd 13y ago
Like many on HN, I'm not a fanatic MS guy (despite having a deep C# background) but I'm happy to see them do well this past quarter. They've only had a series of bad PR recently, epitomized by the CEO stepping down being the highlight story of the year.
But this doesn't talk about specifics. Consumer devices? I don't really understand which product is doing so well for them? I know it's anecdotal but I still have yet to hear someone recommend a microsoft product in the last 6-12 months. The only people that bought their phone were people that bought because of price point.
Can someone shed some light on what microsoft has been selling that everyone wants? I'm really curious now.
- spiderPig 13y agoWhat everyone wants? Xbox one. I liked the Surface Pro 2 too . Just wish it were a tad cheaper.
- evo_9 13y agoIf that's the case isn't Sony set to report similar profits? From what I've read the PS4 is outselling Xbox One pretty substantially (even though Xbox One is selling quite well). Can it really be attributed to XboxOne and Surface? I'm really curious too.
- BugBrother 13y ago>> Can it really be attributed to XboxOne and Surface? Hardly the Xbox One, consoles generally lose money on the hardware for year(s) after release. Otoh, the revenue was the record and not the profits? For that, more hardware certainly helps. Edit: polyomino has a point, it seems components + build are about the same as the sales price (but not including e.g. transports and profit for the shops selling them). Edit 2: What tanzam75 said.
- polyomino 13y agoThis generation, the xbox one hardware is being sold for profit. I think the ps4 as well, although with much slimmer margins.
- tanzam75 13y ago> This generation, the xbox one hardware is being sold for profit. IHS estimates the Xbox One's BOM + manufacturing cost = $471. Add in the retailer's margin plus the cost of the retail supply chain, and Microsoft is probably selling the Xbox One at a small loss. They'll make their real profit on the games. As will Sony.
- astrodust 13y agoApparently not everyone as the PS4 is dominating right now: http://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2014/01/23/why-ps4-is-selling-faster-than-xbox-one/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2014/01/23/why-ps4-is-sellin...
- zaidf 13y agoI still have yet to hear someone recommend a microsoft product in the last 6-12 months I think this is a common fallacy, especially after the Apple phenomenon. We assume that just because people aren't rushing to recommend the products they are using, those products aren't selling. That is not necessarily true, especially once you account for the many different motivations behind product purchase. As I think about the most recommended product in different categories, those companies/products are not the leading ones in their category. It tells me that not being highly recommended does not equal sucking.
- larrydag 13y agoI've personally heard recommendations for Surface and Windows phones.
- eyeareque 13y agoI've only seen one person using a Surface.. but they work for Microsoft. Maybe things are different in Silicon Valley vs. everywhere else.
- teach 13y agoI have a few students using Surfaces. If you can stand Windows 8, they're pretty nice.
- mcantelon 13y agoSurface Pros will run Ubuntu allegedly. Could make for a slick unit, although the cover keyboards don't look as good as a regular keyboard.
- outside1234 13y agotry the "type cover" keyboard. its not a regular keyboard but really thin and a nice balance.
- 13y ago
- freehunter 13y agoOffice 365, Bing advertisements, Surface tablets (they say they doubled their revenue from Surface in the last year), Xbox 360, Xbox Live, Xbox One, Microsoft human input devices (mice and keyboards), Windows upgrades (consumer and OEM), Skydrive, support and licensing, SQL Server, Windows Server in general, Skype, Exchange... the list goes on.
- cwyers 13y agoThe list could be practically endless, but Azure should probably be listed too.
- Maarten88 13y agoCertainly. Azure is way behind AWS in the startup scene, but Microsoft is pushing Azure into the enterprise, with good features such as service bus and VPN to connect internal networks with cloud services. The list of Azure services is growing rapidly. Microsoft is also bundling Azure hosting with enterprise agreements, which effectively gives enterprises a substantial free tier.
- polyomino 13y agoThey doubled their surface revenue in the last quarter, they never released last year's surface revenue
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- tanzam75 13y ago> &hey doubled their surface revenue in the last quarter, they never released last year's surface revenue* They said that Surface revenue doubled sequentially. Sequentially means compared to the last quarter -- not the year-ago quarter. From the earnings release: > Surface revenue more than doubled sequentially, from $400 million in the first quarter to $893 million in the second quarter.
- freehunter 13y ago
- ddebernardy 13y ago> I don't really understand which product is doing so well for them? Isn't it server related software, e.g. SQL-Server, Exchange, and so forth? Perhaps some Office and some Windows 8 licenses, too. Both are good cash cows. This much is likely: it's not Bing, nor the Surface, nor Windows Phone, nor the XBox…
- jongalloway2 13y agoBing, Surface, Windows Phone and Xbox are all listed in the financials as doing pretty well. Quoting: Windows OEM revenue declined 3%, reflecting strong 12% growth in Windows OEM Pro revenue, offset by continued softness in the consumer PC market. Surface revenue more than doubled sequentially, from $400 million in the first quarter to $893 million in the second quarter. The company sold 7.4 million Xbox console units into the retail channel, including 3.9 million Xbox One consoles and 3.5 million Xbox 360 consoles. Bing search share grew to 18.2% and search advertising revenue grew 34%. http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY14/Q2/default.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earn...
- ddebernardy 13y agoIndeed, but the follow-up list and the subsequent quote seemed more in line with Microsoft has been doing (or trying to do) in the past decade: > "We significantly outpaced enterprise IT spend as we continue to take share from our competitors by delivering the devices and services our customers need as they transition to the cloud,” said Kevin Turner, chief operating officer at Microsoft. “Our commercial cloud services revenue grew more than 100% year-over-year, as customers are embracing Office 365, Azure, and Dynamics CRM Online, and making long-term commitments to the Microsoft platform.”
- BlackDeath3 13y agoWindows Phone looks like something I'd like to give a try, especially given the spotty experience I've had with Android so far. And if I were to get a tablet, I'd definitely look into a Surface Pro (once they aren't so expensive). Perhaps I'm less of an Anything-But-Microsoft guy than most around here.
- scholia 13y agoThere's a growing number of cheap 8-inch Windows 8 tablets like the Dell Venue Pro. Only 32-bit and 2GB of RAM but they work well as tablets and you can use them with Bluetooth keyboards. They run desktop software but screen elements are really small so you may want to add a couple of big monitors for more serious uses. The Asus Transformer T100 is also worth a look.
- bhauer 13y agoI absolutely love the Venue 8 Pro I received from my wife for Christmas. It is quite remarkable and liberating to have a full PC in such a tiny form factor. Put simply, it can do anything my desktop PC can aside from display dozens of windows simultaneously. And of course it's not as fast as my 3770K. But it's shockingly fast for such a small device thanks to Bay Trail. And Windows 8.1 does the "tablet" thing really well at that size.
- recursive 13y agoI recommend the Surface 2 Pro.
- fareesh 13y agoSurface Pro 2
- jister 13y agoI own a Lumia 925 and I highly recommend it.
- judah 13y agoI just moved from Android to Windows Phone, went with the Lumia 925 as well. Having used it for a month now, I like it. Maybe missing some apps (Sonos was one I was looking for and disappointed, for example.) But on the whole, I am happy with the phone. Feels quite polished.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoDo you mind elaborating a bit more in-depth on Android vs. WP?
- hhorsley 13y agoWhy is price point not a valid way to sell a product? Remember why Henry Ford was such a big deal?
- zik 13y agoThey haven't actually been selling much. They patent-trolled google over some smartphone patents and won. Now they include the billions in revenue as "Windows Phone revenue". AFAIK they make more out of this patent trolling than from actually selling windows phones. http://www.geekwire.com/2013/microsofts-newest-billiondollar-business-android-patents/ http://www.geekwire.com/2013/microsofts-newest-billiondollar...
- Irishsteve 13y agoIf the patents original disclosure was with mobile in mind then its fair enough to report it as windows phone revenue. It's not the type of win MS would want, but they did invest in the R&D
- rbanffy 13y agoUnfortunately, that can not be known, since the patent list they use to extort Android device makers is still secret. When Barnes & Noble threatened to make it public, Microsoft settled and entered a billion dollar partnership (in which B&N did basically nothing)
- jongalloway2 13y agoI think it was $300 million, not a billion, right? http://www.barnesandnobleinc.com/press_releases/10_4_12_bks_msft_final_deal_close.html http://www.barnesandnobleinc.com/press_releases/10_4_12_bks_...
- rbanffy 13y agoIt was a bit more complex than that, but I can't find the billion number. http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303916904577375502392129654 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230391690... In any case, they settled for a negative value a lawsuit alleging B&N violated Microsoft patents. If that doesn't send a message about what those patents are, I can't imagine what would.
- travellingprog 13y agoThe Windows Phone OS usually gets pretty good reviews. The lack of premium phone hardware parts until recently made MS create a very lightweight but pleasing OS. But it still suffers from a lack of app selection. And for me, I personally prefer the customizability of Android. If you're a camera geek though, the new high-end Windows phone are very appealing...
- travellingprog 13y agoThe Windows Phone OS usually gets pretty good reviews. The lack of premium phone hardware parts until recently made MS create a very lightweight but pleasing OS. But it still suffers from a lack of app selection. And for me, I personally prefer the customizability of Android. If you're a camera geek though, the new high-end Windows phone are very appealing...
- sliverstorm 13y agoThe Surface Pro devices have received strongly positive reviews for the right applications. They are expensive and a little niche, but are nonetheless impressive machines.
- nivla 13y ago>The only people that bought their phone were people that bought because of price point. Not really. I bought my Lumia Phone and Surface pro for its features and also because it did seem to solve a few of my pains. The main selling point for a Nokia Lumia was the camera, I don't think any other phone on the market can match that. Its also simple enough to use, has offline radio and maps so I don't have to hunt for a 4g/wifi. As for the Surface Pro, its is a great device when travelling, fun + getting work done and my laptop automatically syncs up the changes to my laptop with BitSync when I am back.
- computerslol 13y agoI bought their phone (920) because I like the UI, I don't have to put a case on it, I like the camera, and it can run programs that I write. I didn't pay for it; I traded my iphone 4s with a friend for it. I am going to upgrade for a 1020 once I'm eligible with my carrier.
- Kequc 13y ago> has offline maps so I don't have to hunt for a 4g/wifi You just about immediately sold me on a windows phone with those words. "Offline maps" as someone who travels in europe yes please.
- swaroop 13y agoDoesn't the OpenStreetMap Android app do offline as well? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand
- nine_k 13y agoSort of yes. OSM maps of thickly populated areas are great. I don't know about routing / navigation, though.
- csdigi 13y agoI travel in Europe a lot, but Google Maps for Android has had the ability to save offline maps for ages now (which I use all the time). GPS also works offline obviously so you can navigate pretty well (still no search for offline though). In the latest version (7.5 I think) you just get the area you want to save in screen, click the search bar and scroll down to the bottom to see the option. I think it works on iOS too but you might need to use the "OK Maps" easter egg.
- derivagral 13y agoIf you want the actual report, that's here: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/789019/000119312514018634/d635047d10q.htm http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/789019/00011931251401...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- pyrocat 13y agoDespite many hardcore techies (like us) dismissing the Surface, it's actually quite appealing for certain segments of the casual marketplace. That and the Xbox are probably the main (hardware) sellers.
- BlackDeath3 13y agoWhat about the Surface is unappealing to "hardcore techies"?
- bhauer 13y agoI consider myself something of a hardcore techie and I am very happy with my Surface Pro. Although I have high-spec workstations both at home and the office, the Surface Pro is a terrific form factor for carrying to work and back every day as a pedestrian commuter. It's great to have with me in case I have to do some work away from my workstations. As a thick tablet, the Pro is stunningly fast compared to other tablets. With the keyboard, it's up to any task I'd throw at an ultrabook. The touchscreen is totally natural and fitting for such a small device. It's great to be able to just click UI buttons with your finger on the screen, even in the "laptop" orientation. The battery life is more than enough for my use-case. I don't use the stylus much—I wish it had slightly better precision. What achievements must I unlock to earn the hardcore techie badge? Maybe I'm still a few shy.
- pyrocat 13y agoWindows 8. Touchscreen. It's not altogether unappealing, but I feel like its main selling points are aimed at the casual user who doesn't own a desktop or laptop already (or just have a work laptop).
- BlackDeath3 13y agoI don't particularly care for Windows 8/touchscreens either, but: Windows 8: Though I have very limited experience with this, it seems like it was born to run on a tablet. Touchscreen: I think touchscreens in general are inefficient and clumsy, but... pretty much every device these days has a screen as a primary/secondary method in input. I don't see how this sets the Surface apart from any other modern mobile device. Perhaps you mean that the Surface's touchscreen, in particular, isn't very good?
- jgreen10 13y agoPerfectly happy about my Lumia 620. Great bang for buck. However, it's not a phone to brag about.
- rbanffy 13y ago> what microsoft has been selling that everyone wants? Continuity. If you have a full Windows shop, with hundreds or thousands of users on Active Directory, with e-mail and calendars on Exchange, all their important documents made in Office and stored on SharePoint, all their internal apps in VB/C# storing their data on SQL Server (or Oracle running on Windows Server) you'll have a hard time selling anything much different. It's always easier to upgrade to a newer release of Windows than to Linux or OSX. Microsoft has perfected the art of vendor lock-in. I believe only IBM's zOS customers "enjoy" a similar situation.
- awada 13y agoIs it easier to switch from the LAMP stack or RoR to other platforms? Or Java to other languages? Switching costs are always high in technology, not sure what your point is. Not to mention there are no credible better alternatives to AD and Exchange except maybe hand over all and data to a third party with G apps.
- rbanffy 13y agoIf you want to switch from LAMP on Red Hat to LAMP on Ubuntu or even on Windows, it's easy because most, if not all, of the pieces are there. It's not so with Windows desktop or web apps - the pieces are proprietary and many of them don't run on anything other than Windows.
- BlackDeath3 13y ago"We have to make them need us!"
- powertower 13y agoOr perhaps it's because they have solutions, features, industry leading backwards-compatibility, competent support channels, and a slew of other things - that their nearest competitor does not have.
- code_duck 13y agoI assume you mean their nearest competitor for consumer and small to medium business desktop operating systems? Because that statement isn't true for say, mobile phones, video game systems, cloud services, or database, enterprise, and web server software.
- toyg 13y agoThere's also a bubble effect if you live in California/US. I remember showing the Nokia N900 around SF a few years ago and nobody had heard of it, while in Europe it had received quite a bit of press. The old marketing and commercial infrastructure from Nokia is still in place in many countries over here. I distinctly remember, in early 2013, a friend of mine telling me his partner had bought a Lumia "and it's quite good, really". A lot of people still buy phones for the looks and included minutes, so a good commercial network can still move quite a few units regardless of tech hype.
- drakaal 13y agoConsumer devices also includes patent licenses for consumer devices. MSFT makes money on every Android phone sold because of licenses. Same for other uses of certain versions of FAT on certain device types.
- fersho311 13y agoseeing how nokia tanked after disappointing earnings this quarter, we can safely assume that windows phones were not the driving factor for Microsoft. https://www.google.com/finance?q=nokia&ei=baPhUrjeEuGgiALHqQE https://www.google.com/finance?q=nokia&ei=baPhUrjeEuGgiALHqQ...
- codeulike 13y agoA bit of anecdata: My niece got a cheap laptop last year for homework with Windows 8 on it. This christmas she asked 'santa' for a windows phone, because she's used to the interface. And this is in a household where everyone's had iPod Touchs and access to an iPad for years. So there at least, the 'make everything metro' strategy seems to have worked out.
- bane 13y agoNever underestimate the power of cheap, near disposable hardware for children. Buying a $3k laptop for anybody younger than a college student just doesn't make a lot of sense with the kind of wear and tear a kid puts a computer through. Most families I know end up having to buy a new laptop for their kid every year. It's far less painful when that laptop is <$800. Hell, here's an awesome laptop I'd be thrilled to have if I were 15 and it's $500. http://www.costco.com/HP-Pavilion-TouchSmart-15z-Laptop-%7c-AMD-A4.product.100099743.html http://www.costco.com/HP-Pavilion-TouchSmart-15z-Laptop-%7c-...
- codeulike 13y agoConsumer devices would include the Xbox, right?
- 1945 13y agoCooking the books.
- bane 13y ago> Can someone shed some light on what microsoft has been selling that everyone wants? I'm really curious now. Operating systemwise? An unbelievably vast software ecosystem and a highly performant, user friendly, highly hardware tolerant, flexible OS. There are things I like to do that are either impossible or such a giant PIA on my rMBP that I just don't do them. Coming from Windows-land, the software ecosystem on Macs, especially the kind of hobbyist software I like to monkey around with, feels like a barren wasteland comparatively. Don't get me wrong, I love my rMBP, and I get my work done on it well enough, it's the best portable virtualization hardware I've ever owned and the second Apple laptop I've owned. But I've also realized that I spend 95% of my time on it either SSH'd into something else, in a browser or using software that's also available on Windows (and often works better, like Office of Chrome). I can do those things with hardware that's 1/5th the cost and have it be almost exactly as performant for those use-cases. For my next laptop, if I can find a high quality portable Windows laptop with good virtualization characteristics I'd be 50/50 on not buying another Apple product because of the things I have to set aside due to the spare software ecosystem. There's also enough day-to-day irritants and workarounds with the hardware and especially OS X (and especially the stinking pile of garbage that is Finder) that I find I spend most of my time trying to avoid the OS. For portability and form factor, a Surface Pro 2 is definitely something I'm considering as a next portable. It seems these days, Apples get used in software development and server admin functions or among liberal arts students. And for the typical users (not the HN crowd) justifying an expensive price tag for marginally better portability for something that gets used mostly as a glorified web browsing terminal and Word/Excel computer is not a smart purchase decision for most consumers.