5 ms·

There are definitely factors that make comparing these salaries difficult, but some of the things you listed just simply don't apply to most Software Engineers.

by efuquen 13y ago

There are definitely factors that make comparing these salaries difficult, but some of the things you listed just simply don't apply to most Software Engineers. Most jobs will offer you good health care for free, not deducted from your wages. Also most jobs won't deduct sick days from your salary and even though 2 weeks is more standard for holidays here I've found that getting more vacation days is not that difficult (depends on the job). As far as retirement, I'm not sure how Social Security compares to whatever pension payments your talking about, or 401k matching that many employers do (still required for you to put money in). But the OP said salaries excluding taxes, I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? Or maybe the business themselves provide most of this money for pensions and such? Again, not sure how that all works there. This is all from the perspective of a "Software Engineer", most of what you said would definitely apply to a lower wage job, but not something that's specialized and in demand. What definitely does factor in is cost of living. The rents i saw listed in some comments are 3 to 4 times lower then what I'm paying in NYC. Also general cost of living outside of that is far cheaper from the numbers I see listed, though that's harder to compare because I don't know how other commenters live, for example I eat out mostly, cook once in awhile. But, I know it's definitely possible to live more cheaply then I do and still end up alright, though it would require more sacrifices (i.e. I can imagine spending half of what I do in rent and general costs and still get by ok). In short, yah there are differences, but I don't think the main ones are what you listed.

Xylakant 13y ago
> But the OP said salaries excluding taxes, I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? Jein :) The cost for social security is split roughly 50/50 between employee and employer. The basic point about more holidays is true in germany as well: I know people that have 30 or even 35 days (7 weeks) of holidays. Then there's public holidays that are paid as well in germany (up to 14 per year, depending on where you live) etc. My basic point was that it's very hard to compare salaries only by looking at the raw figures since the benefits guaranteed or given voluntarily differ massively.
stdbrouw 13y ago
> I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? It depends, e.g. in Belgium part of it is paid by your employer on top of your pre-tax wage, and a (larger) part is deducted from your pre-tax salary. Don't ask me why. I think you're right to point out that there's two different – though obviously related – questions to ask: (a) are companies paying less? and (b) is individual taxation higher?
mahyarm 13y ago
While the expensive cities we live in might be expensive on a rent basis, everything else in the USA is far cheaper compared to Europe and Canada. Food, consumer goods, gas, VAT/sales tax, etc. After a certain point the cost of rent maxes out, especially if your a single person with roommates. Also the US has lower tax rates. If you wanted to be really optimal in total profits and not move to a developing country you might work in austin, seattle or even las vegas with no state income tax and far more affordable rents. The only thing left is 2 or 3 more weeks in vacation time, which if you adjust on a $/hour basis, the SFBA still comes out ahead. It is definitely enviable, but there are companies out there that would be fine with you taking equivalent unpaid vacations or working remotely for weeks at a time.

by efuquen 13y ago

Xylakant 13y ago

> But the OP said salaries excluding taxes, I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? Jein :) The cost for social security is split roughly 50/50 between employee and employer. The basic point about more holidays is true in germany as well: I know people that have 30 or even 35 days (7 weeks) of holidays. Then there's public holidays that are paid as well in germany (up to 14 per year, depending on where you live) etc. My basic point was that it's very hard to compare salaries only by looking at the raw figures since the benefits guaranteed or given voluntarily differ massively.

stdbrouw 13y ago

> I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? It depends, e.g. in Belgium part of it is paid by your employer on top of your pre-tax wage, and a (larger) part is deducted from your pre-tax salary. Don't ask me why. I think you're right to point out that there's two different – though obviously related – questions to ask: (a) are companies paying less? and (b) is individual taxation higher?

mahyarm 13y ago

While the expensive cities we live in might be expensive on a rent basis, everything else in the USA is far cheaper compared to Europe and Canada. Food, consumer goods, gas, VAT/sales tax, etc. After a certain point the cost of rent maxes out, especially if your a single person with roommates. Also the US has lower tax rates. If you wanted to be really optimal in total profits and not move to a developing country you might work in austin, seattle or even las vegas with no state income tax and far more affordable rents. The only thing left is 2 or 3 more weeks in vacation time, which if you adjust on a $/hour basis, the SFBA still comes out ahead. It is definitely enviable, but there are companies out there that would be fine with you taking equivalent unpaid vacations or working remotely for weeks at a time.