5 ms·

Probably shouldn't be telling cops to fuck off then?

by res0nat0r 13y ago

Karunamon 13y ago
1st amendment says otherwise.
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  You are free to talk shit to anyone you want in a bar; you are also free to get your ass kicked. Antagonizing a cop just to be a dick will probably result in those minor charges he would have ignored if you were nice, getting written up with a smile on his face. That's 100% your fault in that case.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    The guy in the bar isn't bound by law and ethics to be professional and respect the constitution. The cop is.
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      Writing you a ticket that he is legally entitled to do because you are being a dick is totally professional and in line with the constitution.
      - Karunamon 13y ago
        What ticket do you suppose I deserve for using the words "Fuck off cop"?
        res0nat0r 13y ago
        Reread what I said above...If you are being a dick because you want to "stick it to the man", well expect the man to stick it back to you and write you up for those petty offenses he would have otherwise ignored.
        Karunamon 13y ago
        Problem there is often times people have recieved BS citations for "disturbing the peace" or other nonsense citations which plainly don't apply (i.e. because contempt of cop isn't a crime), but still result in court time and hassle for the accused.
      - dragonwriter 13y ago
        Differential punishment based on protected speech is not professional or in line with the Constitution. That it may be difficult for a court to unambiguously distinguish this abuse of power from legitimate application of discretion doesn't mean that it is legitimate.
- CogDisco 13y ago
  You have the right to free speech. You don't have the right to freedom from consequence of free speech.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    And what consequence should be merited for the words "Fuck off cop"?
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      You getting treated equally shitty in return?
      - Crito 13y ago
        I don't think the concern is that the cop might in turn tell him to fuck off.
angersock 13y ago
I use the hyperbolic case because it should still be allowed--even a kinder "I'm sorry, but I can't leave with you until you've got a warrant" can trigger a "Are you resisting? taze taze taze" event, as we've seen elsewhere. There is no assurance, no safety net, no hope in the system for common sense--and that's before you even take into account informal departmental policies (HPD: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.", Denver PD: "We get up early to beat the crowds").
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  Sure there are cases of abusing their power, this is normal for any industry, doesn't mean it is the norm.
  - angersock 13y ago
    Very few industries are capable of as thoroughly ruining somebody's life as an abuse of power by cops--especially since they are given carte blanche to do so. We have to look at the worst-case outcomes and make our safeguards against them; anything else is inviting disaster.
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      There are safeguards in place unless I'm mistaken (looking at you Internal Affairs). > ruining somebody's life as an abuse of power by cops--especially since they are given carte blanche to do so. The mandate of law enforcement across the USA is to freely destroy peoples lives? Interesting...
      - Karunamon 13y ago
        >There are safeguards in place unless I'm mistaken (looking at you Internal Affairs). Yes, I recall the NSA and other government agencies having such self-policing groups. Tell me, do you really in your heart of hearts think a corrupt organization (say a police dept in a specific place.. if pressed for an example, say Maricopa County in Arizona?) has a functioning IA group? The federal government has an IA group too. Many of them. I'm sure that if Snowden had raised his concerns with them, they would have gladly worked with him to solve those problems.......

Probably shouldn't be telling cops to fuck off then?

Karunamon 13y ago

1st amendment says otherwise.

res0nat0r 13y ago
You are free to talk shit to anyone you want in a bar; you are also free to get your ass kicked. Antagonizing a cop just to be a dick will probably result in those minor charges he would have ignored if you were nice, getting written up with a smile on his face. That's 100% your fault in that case.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  The guy in the bar isn't bound by law and ethics to be professional and respect the constitution. The cop is.
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    Writing you a ticket that he is legally entitled to do because you are being a dick is totally professional and in line with the constitution.
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      What ticket do you suppose I deserve for using the words "Fuck off cop"?
      - res0nat0r 13y ago
        Reread what I said above...If you are being a dick because you want to "stick it to the man", well expect the man to stick it back to you and write you up for those petty offenses he would have otherwise ignored.
        Karunamon 13y ago
        Problem there is often times people have recieved BS citations for "disturbing the peace" or other nonsense citations which plainly don't apply (i.e. because contempt of cop isn't a crime), but still result in court time and hassle for the accused.
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      Differential punishment based on protected speech is not professional or in line with the Constitution. That it may be difficult for a court to unambiguously distinguish this abuse of power from legitimate application of discretion doesn't mean that it is legitimate.
CogDisco 13y ago
You have the right to free speech. You don't have the right to freedom from consequence of free speech.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  And what consequence should be merited for the words "Fuck off cop"?
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    You getting treated equally shitty in return?
    - Crito 13y ago
      I don't think the concern is that the cop might in turn tell him to fuck off.

angersock 13y ago

I use the hyperbolic case because it should still be allowed--even a kinder "I'm sorry, but I can't leave with you until you've got a warrant" can trigger a "Are you resisting? taze taze taze" event, as we've seen elsewhere. There is no assurance, no safety net, no hope in the system for common sense--and that's before you even take into account informal departmental policies (HPD: "You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride.", Denver PD: "We get up early to beat the crowds").

res0nat0r 13y ago
Sure there are cases of abusing their power, this is normal for any industry, doesn't mean it is the norm.
- angersock 13y ago
  Very few industries are capable of as thoroughly ruining somebody's life as an abuse of power by cops--especially since they are given carte blanche to do so. We have to look at the worst-case outcomes and make our safeguards against them; anything else is inviting disaster.
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    There are safeguards in place unless I'm mistaken (looking at you Internal Affairs). > ruining somebody's life as an abuse of power by cops--especially since they are given carte blanche to do so. The mandate of law enforcement across the USA is to freely destroy peoples lives? Interesting...
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      >There are safeguards in place unless I'm mistaken (looking at you Internal Affairs). Yes, I recall the NSA and other government agencies having such self-policing groups. Tell me, do you really in your heart of hearts think a corrupt organization (say a police dept in a specific place.. if pressed for an example, say Maricopa County in Arizona?) has a functioning IA group? The federal government has an IA group too. Many of them. I'm sure that if Snowden had raised his concerns with them, they would have gladly worked with him to solve those problems.......