5 ms·

3 points for "€100k or more" already sounds like bullshit to me at this time. Either that or I would love to hear what you do !

by cake 13y ago

drinchev 13y ago
... Or at least the company segment.
arethuza 13y ago
Within a few seconds of looking I managed to find a "big data architect" role being advertised in Berlin for 500-600 Euro per day - which is comfortably over 100K a year... Almost tempted to apply... ;-)
- Xylakant 13y ago
  A 'per day' payment sounds like a freelance consulting gig which puts it at the lower range of the freelance wage bracket. Freelance jobs are paid better but suffer from higher costs, so those numbers are not directly comparable - you'd have to subtract about 40% to cover the costs.
bnegreve 13y ago
Of course it is, this is an online pool. The assumption that a uniform sample of developers from Berlin would vote for this is absolutely ridiculous. It scares me that so many educated developers consider this to of any significance.
mahyarm 13y ago
That is a pretty standard wage for a sr. developer in the SFBA. Big reason why I'm not moving to europe any time soon.
- doktrin 13y ago
  $140k is standard for a developer in the bay area?
  - mahyarm 13y ago
    Senior developer, $137k. With college grads getting $100k, it's not far fetched.
  - shawndrost 13y ago
    Yes.
- Xylakant 13y ago
  European and US wages are in no way comparable by looking at just the figures. European wages include pension payments, health care, payment for sick days and at least 4 weeks of paid holidays while US contracts often do not provide all of those benefits. This skews the raw numbers massively.
  - efuquen 13y ago
    There are definitely factors that make comparing these salaries difficult, but some of the things you listed just simply don't apply to most Software Engineers. Most jobs will offer you good health care for free, not deducted from your wages. Also most jobs won't deduct sick days from your salary and even though 2 weeks is more standard for holidays here I've found that getting more vacation days is not that difficult (depends on the job). As far as retirement, I'm not sure how Social Security compares to whatever pension payments your talking about, or 401k matching that many employers do (still required for you to put money in). But the OP said salaries excluding taxes, I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? Or maybe the business themselves provide most of this money for pensions and such? Again, not sure how that all works there. This is all from the perspective of a "Software Engineer", most of what you said would definitely apply to a lower wage job, but not something that's specialized and in demand. What definitely does factor in is cost of living. The rents i saw listed in some comments are 3 to 4 times lower then what I'm paying in NYC. Also general cost of living outside of that is far cheaper from the numbers I see listed, though that's harder to compare because I don't know how other commenters live, for example I eat out mostly, cook once in awhile. But, I know it's definitely possible to live more cheaply then I do and still end up alright, though it would require more sacrifices (i.e. I can imagine spending half of what I do in rent and general costs and still get by ok). In short, yah there are differences, but I don't think the main ones are what you listed.
    - Xylakant 13y ago
      > But the OP said salaries excluding taxes, I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? Jein :) The cost for social security is split roughly 50/50 between employee and employer. The basic point about more holidays is true in germany as well: I know people that have 30 or even 35 days (7 weeks) of holidays. Then there's public holidays that are paid as well in germany (up to 14 per year, depending on where you live) etc. My basic point was that it's very hard to compare salaries only by looking at the raw figures since the benefits guaranteed or given voluntarily differ massively.
- super_mario 13y ago
  You are also paying 4 times as much for a lower quality apartment. You are also getting 1/3 of vacation time and you have lower quality health coverage, benefits and perks.

3 points for "€100k or more" already sounds like bullshit to me at this time. Either that or I would love to hear what you do !

by cake 13y ago

3 points for "€100k or more" already sounds like bullshit to me at this time. Either that or I would love to hear what you do !

drinchev 13y ago

... Or at least the company segment.

arethuza 13y ago

Within a few seconds of looking I managed to find a "big data architect" role being advertised in Berlin for 500-600 Euro per day - which is comfortably over 100K a year... Almost tempted to apply... ;-)

Xylakant 13y ago
A 'per day' payment sounds like a freelance consulting gig which puts it at the lower range of the freelance wage bracket. Freelance jobs are paid better but suffer from higher costs, so those numbers are not directly comparable - you'd have to subtract about 40% to cover the costs.

bnegreve 13y ago

Of course it is, this is an online pool. The assumption that a uniform sample of developers from Berlin would vote for this is absolutely ridiculous. It scares me that so many educated developers consider this to of any significance.

mahyarm 13y ago

That is a pretty standard wage for a sr. developer in the SFBA. Big reason why I'm not moving to europe any time soon.

doktrin 13y ago
$140k is standard for a developer in the bay area?
- mahyarm 13y ago
  Senior developer, $137k. With college grads getting $100k, it's not far fetched.
- shawndrost 13y ago
  Yes.
Xylakant 13y ago
European and US wages are in no way comparable by looking at just the figures. European wages include pension payments, health care, payment for sick days and at least 4 weeks of paid holidays while US contracts often do not provide all of those benefits. This skews the raw numbers massively.
- efuquen 13y ago
  There are definitely factors that make comparing these salaries difficult, but some of the things you listed just simply don't apply to most Software Engineers. Most jobs will offer you good health care for free, not deducted from your wages. Also most jobs won't deduct sick days from your salary and even though 2 weeks is more standard for holidays here I've found that getting more vacation days is not that difficult (depends on the job). As far as retirement, I'm not sure how Social Security compares to whatever pension payments your talking about, or 401k matching that many employers do (still required for you to put money in). But the OP said salaries excluding taxes, I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? Or maybe the business themselves provide most of this money for pensions and such? Again, not sure how that all works there. This is all from the perspective of a "Software Engineer", most of what you said would definitely apply to a lower wage job, but not something that's specialized and in demand. What definitely does factor in is cost of living. The rents i saw listed in some comments are 3 to 4 times lower then what I'm paying in NYC. Also general cost of living outside of that is far cheaper from the numbers I see listed, though that's harder to compare because I don't know how other commenters live, for example I eat out mostly, cook once in awhile. But, I know it's definitely possible to live more cheaply then I do and still end up alright, though it would require more sacrifices (i.e. I can imagine spending half of what I do in rent and general costs and still get by ok). In short, yah there are differences, but I don't think the main ones are what you listed.
  - Xylakant 13y ago
    > But the OP said salaries excluding taxes, I would imagine whatever social safety net is in place would be taken out of your wages in taxes, right? Jein :) The cost for social security is split roughly 50/50 between employee and employer. The basic point about more holidays is true in germany as well: I know people that have 30 or even 35 days (7 weeks) of holidays. Then there's public holidays that are paid as well in germany (up to 14 per year, depending on where you live) etc. My basic point was that it's very hard to compare salaries only by looking at the raw figures since the benefits guaranteed or given voluntarily differ massively.
super_mario 13y ago
You are also paying 4 times as much for a lower quality apartment. You are also getting 1/3 of vacation time and you have lower quality health coverage, benefits and perks.