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Regarding Amazon, i've been working with them closely on the marketplace for about 2yrs and i can say they are evil geniuses. Their policy is: - They know we

Regarding Amazon, i've been working with them closely on the marketplace for about 2yrs and i can say they are evil geniuses. Their policy is: - They know were flaws are (packaging, products, marketplace partnerships, deliveries, etc..) but still make nothing to fix them. They rather estimate that a certain amount of customers will complain and will just refund them with no questions, so everyone is happy. - During this process, flaws expenses and drawbacks are thrown on third party partners so that financially they keep up. - The result is that they look like the "wow" guys, partners take full responsibility. - The more they become a monopoly, the more they can play this game. Quite horrible, honestly.

abjorn 13y ago
Part of me believes that's awful, and part of me is just impressed at how smart that is.
sokoloff 13y ago
There is no way to ship $71 Billion of product and get every product and every shipment perfect every time. I don't think it's fair to say that they're doing nothing to fix them. I regularly get product and packaging surveys, and I've seen products be pulled and descriptions updated based on content in reviews or based on feedback from customer care. I've returned a product for not meeting the description, and within 15 minutes of me getting the email saying they'd received the product, credited my card the full amount, I went to the site and the product was un-orderable. Several days later, the description was corrected and the product was again orderable. That violates the "[they] still make nothing to fix them" claim I think. I think you're ascribing a mercenary "screw it, it's cheaper to not fix" mentality when an alternative and more likely (IMO) possibility is "look, we can't fix everything, so when we fail our customers, we need to be very good at making it right".
- jnardiello 13y ago
  > There is no way to ship $71 Billion of product and get every product and every shipment perfect every time. Yes, exactly. But they don't explain it to the customer. They ship right-away another packet. Why? Because what they are actually doing is either saying to the courier "You failed to deliver in our crazy-efficient time table, we won't pay you" or to the third party seller "You failed to meet our standards, we have sent a replacement but you'll cover all expenses". > I've returned a product for not meeting the description, and within 15 minutes of me getting the email saying they'd received the product, credited my card the full amount Again, as above. They usually do this with marketplace products. What they did behind the courtains is saying to the seller "The product didn't meet customer expectations. We refunded it, you will pay all related expenses". > everal days later, the description was corrected and the product was again orderable. That violates the "[they] still make nothing to fix them" claim I think. This was probably the third party seller who fixed the description to avoid paying again. Note: At this point you say "Wow, they are just pushing sellers for quality" WRONG. Because customers are not always right :) Most of the times they are dead wrong actually (or they are just abusing the fact that they know that Amazon consider them always right). It is rotten ethic to just dump all expenses on sellers without even giving them (most of the times) the chance to reply or to take action. > I think you're ascribing a mercenary "screw it, it's cheaper to not fix" mentality when an alternative and more likely (IMO) possibility is "look, we can't fix everything, so when we fail our customers, we need to be very good at making it right". No, i'm saying that they place crazy efficiency requirements and while they understand - as you said - that shit might happen, all they do is dumping all costs of their policy on partners. And partners can't do literally nothing. Why? Because Amazon pays out every 2 weeks, they will just keep the money from your wired amount. Because if you don't comply they just ban. And if they are the only marketplace, you are shut down. This isn't even considering the amount of stress and pressure that this 0 tolerance policy is causing on their own employees and connected partners employees.
  - sokoloff 13y ago
    As a customer, I don't want an explanation of "we ship $71B a year and sometimes shit happens". I want the stuff I ordered. If it came broken, I already know that things break in shipping; I'm holding one in my hand right now; an explanation doesn't help me, but getting another shipped overnight does help me. Amazon is absolutely taking a customer-centric approach. Intentionally. I gather that you're a 3rd party merchant and are frustrated about the losses when bad things happen. What you're not seeing is that Amazon 3rd party sales wouldn't happen nearly as much if Amazon gave great service but buying from a 3rd party was caveat emptor. I've not noticed any difference in customer service policies for Amazon as seller vs 3rd party as seller items. If I did, you can be damned sure that I wouldn't shop from third-party sellers if doing so meant I had to use third-party support policies. I already have that possibility-everywhere else on the internet. I choose to buy from Amazon, including 3rd party sellers, because I know Amazon will get it right or make it right.
    - jnardiello 13y ago
      Yeah, having an extremely confusing interface that doesn't make completely clear to average customer from whom you are actually buying (and who is actually fulfilling your order) is part - IMHO - or a very poor ethic. Anyway, your points as a customer are indeed valid and obvious. Still, the way they reach such efficiency is absolutely unhealthy for the economy. On my personal side, i will avoid like hell any professional relationship with Amazon. Note: I didn't part for any of the reasons above and i don't have anything personal against it. Mine are just general thoughts after gaining some experience on their internal operations :)
    - arjie 13y ago
      Exactly, most people I've spoken to consider Fulfilled By Amazon far more reliable than the best eBay seller and consequently will accept slightly higher costs to deal with Amazon instead of eBay.

abjorn 13y ago

Part of me believes that's awful, and part of me is just impressed at how smart that is.

sokoloff 13y ago

There is no way to ship $71 Billion of product and get every product and every shipment perfect every time. I don't think it's fair to say that they're doing nothing to fix them. I regularly get product and packaging surveys, and I've seen products be pulled and descriptions updated based on content in reviews or based on feedback from customer care. I've returned a product for not meeting the description, and within 15 minutes of me getting the email saying they'd received the product, credited my card the full amount, I went to the site and the product was un-orderable. Several days later, the description was corrected and the product was again orderable. That violates the "[they] still make nothing to fix them" claim I think. I think you're ascribing a mercenary "screw it, it's cheaper to not fix" mentality when an alternative and more likely (IMO) possibility is "look, we can't fix everything, so when we fail our customers, we need to be very good at making it right".

jnardiello 13y ago
> There is no way to ship $71 Billion of product and get every product and every shipment perfect every time. Yes, exactly. But they don't explain it to the customer. They ship right-away another packet. Why? Because what they are actually doing is either saying to the courier "You failed to deliver in our crazy-efficient time table, we won't pay you" or to the third party seller "You failed to meet our standards, we have sent a replacement but you'll cover all expenses". > I've returned a product for not meeting the description, and within 15 minutes of me getting the email saying they'd received the product, credited my card the full amount Again, as above. They usually do this with marketplace products. What they did behind the courtains is saying to the seller "The product didn't meet customer expectations. We refunded it, you will pay all related expenses". > everal days later, the description was corrected and the product was again orderable. That violates the "[they] still make nothing to fix them" claim I think. This was probably the third party seller who fixed the description to avoid paying again. Note: At this point you say "Wow, they are just pushing sellers for quality" WRONG. Because customers are not always right :) Most of the times they are dead wrong actually (or they are just abusing the fact that they know that Amazon consider them always right). It is rotten ethic to just dump all expenses on sellers without even giving them (most of the times) the chance to reply or to take action. > I think you're ascribing a mercenary "screw it, it's cheaper to not fix" mentality when an alternative and more likely (IMO) possibility is "look, we can't fix everything, so when we fail our customers, we need to be very good at making it right". No, i'm saying that they place crazy efficiency requirements and while they understand - as you said - that shit might happen, all they do is dumping all costs of their policy on partners. And partners can't do literally nothing. Why? Because Amazon pays out every 2 weeks, they will just keep the money from your wired amount. Because if you don't comply they just ban. And if they are the only marketplace, you are shut down. This isn't even considering the amount of stress and pressure that this 0 tolerance policy is causing on their own employees and connected partners employees.
- sokoloff 13y ago
  As a customer, I don't want an explanation of "we ship $71B a year and sometimes shit happens". I want the stuff I ordered. If it came broken, I already know that things break in shipping; I'm holding one in my hand right now; an explanation doesn't help me, but getting another shipped overnight does help me. Amazon is absolutely taking a customer-centric approach. Intentionally. I gather that you're a 3rd party merchant and are frustrated about the losses when bad things happen. What you're not seeing is that Amazon 3rd party sales wouldn't happen nearly as much if Amazon gave great service but buying from a 3rd party was caveat emptor. I've not noticed any difference in customer service policies for Amazon as seller vs 3rd party as seller items. If I did, you can be damned sure that I wouldn't shop from third-party sellers if doing so meant I had to use third-party support policies. I already have that possibility-everywhere else on the internet. I choose to buy from Amazon, including 3rd party sellers, because I know Amazon will get it right or make it right.
  - jnardiello 13y ago
    Yeah, having an extremely confusing interface that doesn't make completely clear to average customer from whom you are actually buying (and who is actually fulfilling your order) is part - IMHO - or a very poor ethic. Anyway, your points as a customer are indeed valid and obvious. Still, the way they reach such efficiency is absolutely unhealthy for the economy. On my personal side, i will avoid like hell any professional relationship with Amazon. Note: I didn't part for any of the reasons above and i don't have anything personal against it. Mine are just general thoughts after gaining some experience on their internal operations :)
  - arjie 13y ago
    Exactly, most people I've spoken to consider Fulfilled By Amazon far more reliable than the best eBay seller and consequently will accept slightly higher costs to deal with Amazon instead of eBay.