6 ms·

In a significant part of the US, you can fire people with no notice, with no recourse, for any/no reason. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment http

In a significant part of the US, you can fire people with no notice, with no recourse, for any/no reason. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

_delirium 13y ago
Not for any reason. Even in at-will employment states, you cannot fire someone on the basis that you discovered they are Christian (or Muslim, or Polish, or an Army veteran) and you don't like Christians (or Muslims, or Poles, or vets). Some are federally protected categories (termination on the basis of race/ethnicity/religion/gender is banned nationally under the Civil Rights Act of 1964), while others are prohibited by state laws. The status of firing someone because they are transgender under federal law is in flux; the EEOC issued an interpretation in 2012 that the 1964 ban on gender-related employment discrimination covers employment discrimination on the basis of transgender status, but I'm not sure whether this has been upheld by courts. Of course, you can state no reason, and avoid leaving evidence of your real motivations, which might make it harder to prove: if you fire someone because you discovered they're Polish and you hate Poles, they can only win an unlawful-termination suit if they can prove that was the reason.
- odiroot 13y ago
  What's up with the Poles? Is it a thing? Just curious, asking as a Pole.
  - rmc 13y ago
    It's probably an example of anti-racism law.
    - viraptor 13y ago
      Poles are not a race though. It's only nationality.
      - _delirium 13y ago
        True, but U.S. anti-discrimination law rarely speaks directly about race, and instead uses the broader phrasing "race, color, or national origin", which covers pretty much anything race- or ethnicity-based.
      - rmc 13y ago
        Polish is an ethnicity, and also national origin. In many places in Europe anti-racism laws don't just say "race", they say "race/ethnicity"
  - aestra 13y ago
    In the United States there has been a long history of discrimination against national origin, especially of recent immigrants. Poles were just used as an example here of a national origin. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment for the most blatant forms.
  - koide 13y ago
    North or South? (I expect he'll say it was just an example, but Freud would disagree)
gadders 13y ago
Which is why unemployment is lower than in Europe.
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  Europe isn't a country. It's a region with both strong and weak economies. A regional average of unemployment rates is invalid and useless for any meaningful statistics. US: 7.3% Strong economies in europe: UK: 7.5% Germany: 5.2% Denmark: 6.7% Norway: 3.1% Weak economies in europe: Greece 27.3% Spain 26.7% Italy: 12.5% You can't average countries with completely different governments and economies to produce a regional figure, just like an average of the US' and Mexico's (4.25%) would be equally meaningless.
  - chongli 13y ago
    I'm not even sure these numbers are comparable. Who is gathering and reporting the statistics? Are they all using the exact same criteria and methodology? Unemployment is one of the most politically-charged statistics you can find. I'd be shocked if all these countries reported it accurately.
    - protomyth 13y ago
      They are not comparable, nor is the current rate in the US with historic data since the definitions have changed multiple times. It is very much the same with comparing infant mortality since several EU countries count it very differently than the US.
  - gadders 13y ago
    A fair point, but is there an underlying reason (beyond having the Euro) why those economies are weak? The point I was trying to make was an economic one - if it is easier to fire a mistake (either for perfomance or business-reasons), then it makes you more likely to hire people.
    - Xylakant 13y ago

_delirium 13y ago

Not for any reason. Even in at-will employment states, you cannot fire someone on the basis that you discovered they are Christian (or Muslim, or Polish, or an Army veteran) and you don't like Christians (or Muslims, or Poles, or vets). Some are federally protected categories (termination on the basis of race/ethnicity/religion/gender is banned nationally under the Civil Rights Act of 1964), while others are prohibited by state laws. The status of firing someone because they are transgender under federal law is in flux; the EEOC issued an interpretation in 2012 that the 1964 ban on gender-related employment discrimination covers employment discrimination on the basis of transgender status, but I'm not sure whether this has been upheld by courts. Of course, you can state no reason, and avoid leaving evidence of your real motivations, which might make it harder to prove: if you fire someone because you discovered they're Polish and you hate Poles, they can only win an unlawful-termination suit if they can prove that was the reason.

odiroot 13y ago
What's up with the Poles? Is it a thing? Just curious, asking as a Pole.
- rmc 13y ago
  It's probably an example of anti-racism law.
  - viraptor 13y ago
    Poles are not a race though. It's only nationality.
    - _delirium 13y ago
      True, but U.S. anti-discrimination law rarely speaks directly about race, and instead uses the broader phrasing "race, color, or national origin", which covers pretty much anything race- or ethnicity-based.
    - rmc 13y ago
      Polish is an ethnicity, and also national origin. In many places in Europe anti-racism laws don't just say "race", they say "race/ethnicity"
- aestra 13y ago
  In the United States there has been a long history of discrimination against national origin, especially of recent immigrants. Poles were just used as an example here of a national origin. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment for the most blatant forms.
- koide 13y ago
  North or South? (I expect he'll say it was just an example, but Freud would disagree)

gadders 13y ago

Which is why unemployment is lower than in Europe.

blueskin_ 13y ago
Europe isn't a country. It's a region with both strong and weak economies. A regional average of unemployment rates is invalid and useless for any meaningful statistics. US: 7.3% Strong economies in europe: UK: 7.5% Germany: 5.2% Denmark: 6.7% Norway: 3.1% Weak economies in europe: Greece 27.3% Spain 26.7% Italy: 12.5% You can't average countries with completely different governments and economies to produce a regional figure, just like an average of the US' and Mexico's (4.25%) would be equally meaningless.
- chongli 13y ago
  I'm not even sure these numbers are comparable. Who is gathering and reporting the statistics? Are they all using the exact same criteria and methodology? Unemployment is one of the most politically-charged statistics you can find. I'd be shocked if all these countries reported it accurately.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    They are not comparable, nor is the current rate in the US with historic data since the definitions have changed multiple times. It is very much the same with comparing infant mortality since several EU countries count it very differently than the US.
- gadders 13y ago
  A fair point, but is there an underlying reason (beyond having the Euro) why those economies are weak? The point I was trying to make was an economic one - if it is easier to fire a mistake (either for perfomance or business-reasons), then it makes you more likely to hire people.
  - Xylakant 13y ago