7 ms·

This is why the whole "real name" trend is insane to me. Who gets to decide what my "real name" even is except for me? I have this problem on a MUCH more limi

This is why the whole "real name" trend is insane to me. Who gets to decide what my "real name" even is except for me? I have this problem on a MUCH more limited scale in that I go by my middle name--a shortened version at that--and have for almost all of my decades on this planet. However, for many services, I'm not allowed to use anything except my "legal name." This is a name that, I hasten to add, ought to include my middle name since it's ON MY BIRTH CERTIFICATE, unlike the souls from the article who are using a different yet still identifiable name for a very important reason. For some reason, "legal" or "real" name only seems to mean "the first and last words from the 'name' line on your identity document." Names are not intended to be unique or, frankly, immutable. A nickname, full name, shortened name, set of initials, or even a creative symbol can all stand for the same person and it's nobody's business, especially for a free "social" site, what relationship that string of letters has to that person. (I would like to reiterate that I am not putting "oops, can't use my middle name" on the same level as "holy cowbells, an intimate detail of my life was just revealed to coworkers and potentially-hostile reporters without my knowledge or consent." It's just a small point of overlap that gives me a tiny bit of insight.)

Cthulhu_ 13y ago
This, pretty much. I have a friend who had to change her (legal) name due to a stalker, and consequently never uses it anywhere online (she uses an alias on facebook).
- aragot 13y ago
  Given that's a lie about her identity, she could be quickly distrusted if she ever appears in a court. And that's a preety huge consequence of the Real Name Policy.
  - delinka 13y ago
    "Changing a legal name" is a legal process and the result, a new name for the same person, is no more a lie than choosing a nickname for oneself. From a legal standpoint, the changed name is now a legally permissible "lie." This does not result in mistrust by a court because the legal system was involved in the change. Of course, all this assumes the "change in legal name" went through the legal process.
    - nly 13y ago
      Actually changing your "legal name" in many places isn't a "legal process" at all. Not if you mean a state-managed, form-filling exercise. In the UK for example the law only specifies you must make a public declaration of your intent to use a new name (a notice in a local newspaper will do), and then completely abandon any all use of the old name. Even the venerable old 'Deed Poll' service is just a mechanism to make that initial declaration, it's actually a private register.
    - evincarofautumn 13y ago
      In the U.S. anyway, you have the right to use any name by which you represent yourself consistently without intent to defraud, much akin to a common-law marriage.
  - watwut 13y ago
    The changed name is NOT a "lie". Changed name is her new name. As far as law is concerned, new name is the truth about her identity. And I'm not sure that court would take it against person if that person uses alias online. After all, it is general advice for teenagers not to reveal their names online.
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      I think they were referring to "she uses an alias on facebook". I.e., Facebook requiring real names pushes the alias towards being a negative reputation component
adnam 13y ago
In some countries like Spain, you don't have a right to decide what your (legal) name is. Your parents are required to register your father's first surname as your first surname, and your mother's first surname as your second surname. You may only change the order of your surnames, and there is a specific legal process to do this.
- jaimebuelta 13y ago
  In Spain you can also change your given name without much problem (though it has all the inconveniences of bureaucratic processes, fees, etc) It is not possible to change from a male to a female name or viceversa (unless you are legally changing your gender, which has its own, more complicated process). There are unisex names, but are pretty uncommon in Spanish, though I guess using a foreign name could be a trick in these cases. (Note: People have two surnames in Spanish, the first one inherited normally from the father, and the second from the mother [1]) There are some cases where surnames can be changed, but they follow some rules and it's not very flexible. For example, is not uncommon to join surnames if they are "famous enough", so they will be inherited as one (keeping the reference to the famous ancestor). In case someone is curious, here is a link (in Spanish) showing the process to change name ad surnames [2] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs [2] http://www.mjusticia.gob.es/cs/Satellite/es/1200666550200/Tramite_C/1214483962185/Detalle.html http://www.mjusticia.gob.es/cs/Satellite/es/1200666550200/Tr...
abrahamsen 13y ago
> A free "social" site It is not a free service. You pay for it with your personal information. It is up to you whether you find the price too high. And with the Google+ integration, the price for using Google services is definitely on the rise.
- fauigerzigerk 13y ago
  True, but the price should at least be known before making the payment.
kitsune_ 13y ago
This isn't even about your own perceived "real name". If I have a relationship with a company and they know my real name I expect them not to leak it to the world. Period. My business is with them and that's about it. When you initially signed up with GMail you signed up for an e-mail address, not a public directory that links your e-mail address to your real name. When you signed up to YouTube, you signed up providing a pseudonym. The implicit assumption is that your pseudonym is used to identify yourself to other users of the same service. You did not expect your comments, your videos and interactions to be linked to your real name. The same principle applied to virtually every Google service. Google broke that trust with a series of glaring mistakes. I honestly lost any ounce of trust I ever had in Google. I have no fucking idea what they have done with my real name. Every day there is a possibility that Google has come up with yet another obscure shit service that decides to integrate itself with a user's main account and trumpet real life information to the world without the user's consent.
- laumars 13y ago
  > When you signed up to YouTube, you signed up providing a pseudonym. The implicit assumption is that your pseudonym is used to identify yourself to other users of the same service. You did not expect your comments, your videos and interactions to be linked to your real name. This point I particularly identify with and it's gotten to the point where I no longer comment on YouTube videos nor leave app reviews on Google Play because I don't want my real name published everywhere on the web. I can't even begin to identify with the transgender community about the issues Google have willingly created. I think it's about time the EU (or other governing body) stepped in an mandated that users are entitled to pseudonyms for internet services.
  - pgeorgi 13y ago
    I doubt the EU (or other governing bodies) are very willing to help. If they were to decide, everything you put on the 'net would be digitally signed with a key on your passport. (yeah, slight hyperbole - unfortunately not too much)
    - 13y ago
spot 13y ago
this isn't the problem. you can create a google account with whatever name you want, and as long as it looks like a regular name, they will never notice and not care. the problem is they have different accounts with different names that are linked (android and g+) but the names are leaking through. it is hardly surprising that it is tricky to prevent that from a UX perspective. this actually has nothing to do with "real names".
- tomp 13y ago
  It's actually trivial to prevent from a programming perspective: don't automatically link accounts, and even if they are "linked" (for login purposes), don't import/export personal information from them.
  - girvo 13y ago
    Now, a disclaimer -- I think how Google has approached this is dumb. But, what if linking that info allows for better UX and features for your customers? At least for the majority. There will always be edge cases, in any feature we as developers ever build... Is it really as simple as "never do that, ever"? In Google/YouTube/Google+ -- yeah, I think you can make an argument that people expected those accounts to be separate when they made them and G should not have forced them to link them. Bad form. But I honestly can see some cases where that sort of linking can be used positively. In my humble opinion, the real issue is 1. How google forced the linkages, and before their latest "Pages" feature (which is hard to use even still) didn't allow for a workaround, 2. How long everyone's google and YouTube and android accounts have existed for. You made your YouTube account thinking it was separate. Now it's not, and that's an issue, due to a (correct at the time) assumption you made in the past, and that's not your fault. It's a shame that this is such a mess. The only Google product I still use is Search these days. They lost my trust over a year ago now.
    - tomp 13y ago
      For me, as a developer and user, the main priority is only one: Don't cause irreversible consequences. That's the reason we have the "Are you sure you want to delete this?" dialogue boxes where it matters and "Undo" buttons where it doesn't. Given the nature of the internet, the developers (especially Google) should know that once you link two accounts/names, you can't unlink them, so preventing accidental linking should be their priority. This is the same reason I don't support automatic updates that introduce breaking changes, and I rarely even update my apps nowadays. This is also probably the reason I will buy an iPhone next time, even though I strongly oppose their closed-source/walled-garden philosophy - my my personal information and well-being are more important than open source, and at least I'm paying Apple with money, not information.
emhart 13y ago
I'm in the same boat. I actually didn't find out what my first name was until I was in 2nd grade and I saw my birth certificate for the first time. My parents named me "Mohandas" after Gandhi, but were concerned about that being the name I went by, so not only did I always go by "Schuyler", my 2nd name, but my 2nd, 3rd & last names were on every legal document I ever filed. About 3 years ago an agent at the RMV in MA, while looking at my birth certificate, which has all 4 names on it, decided that my license had to be issued to Mohandas. I showed her everything I had, passport, taxes, etc. yet she wouldn't relent and I couldn't figure out any way to protest it. At first it didn't really matter, until I got a letter from my bank that my car insurance was issued through, that I was Mohandas now, so far as they were concerned. Then, when I went to get a license in my new state, they also insisted, though they were much more polite about it and raised the issue up to supervisors, etc. In the end they sent me to get a current copy of my social security card, which didn't have Mohandas written on it. When I arrived at the SSA...they balked at the difference and issued me a new card with Mohandas in first, and my 3rd name dropped completely. That sealed the deal at the DMV, so now my social security number, my license, my bank statements, utilities, etc. are all issued to "Mohandas" which isn't an identity I have any connection to. Sorry for the rant, it's just been a frustrating, strange couple years as I've watched my lifelong identity transform out of my control. EDIT: Would also like to add that in the scope of the article and the very real suffering this issue is causing an already embattled minority, my issue is absolutely not comparable.
- ak217 13y ago
  Sorry to hear about your trouble. All of these agencies have a process for changing your name. It can be frustrating, but changing a name is a routine procedure, so it shouldn't be too hard to undo the damage (though of course would have been easier if you did it as soon as MassDOT forced you).
  - emhart 13y ago
    So...I know that. And I shouldn't have said "have no connection to", that was absolutely false and just the frustration speaking. Mohandas was a name for my family and my dearest friends. As I got older, I got bolder about sharing it with many more people, but it remained something only the closest people in the world called me. My best man calls me "MoTowne" (first & last mashed up), my family at reunions occasionally say it. It makes me so happy when those people can identify me by what is an important part of my identity, but so separate from my daily life. It is bitter to me that what my father once described as a name that was "Just for us" is now on "YOU'RE PRE-APPROVED" mailings from credit companies. It is bitter to me that I'm seriously considering changing my name as I do care. And it is bitter to me that it has changed my plans for my own children. I so loved having a private, meaningful identity to those closest to me that I wanted to pass the same thing on to my children. I've had the names selected for years, yet now I feel like I'd just be subjecting them to the same sort of trouble down the line. I know it's a weirdly singular issue to have, and it's far from the end of the world, but, again quoting my father, "There's nothing wrong with having a little ambiguity about your identity." In fact...he may have even said "good to have." And I tend to agree with him. All of that said, I very much appreciate your response.

Cthulhu_ 13y ago

This, pretty much. I have a friend who had to change her (legal) name due to a stalker, and consequently never uses it anywhere online (she uses an alias on facebook).

aragot 13y ago
Given that's a lie about her identity, she could be quickly distrusted if she ever appears in a court. And that's a preety huge consequence of the Real Name Policy.
- delinka 13y ago
  "Changing a legal name" is a legal process and the result, a new name for the same person, is no more a lie than choosing a nickname for oneself. From a legal standpoint, the changed name is now a legally permissible "lie." This does not result in mistrust by a court because the legal system was involved in the change. Of course, all this assumes the "change in legal name" went through the legal process.
  - nly 13y ago
    Actually changing your "legal name" in many places isn't a "legal process" at all. Not if you mean a state-managed, form-filling exercise. In the UK for example the law only specifies you must make a public declaration of your intent to use a new name (a notice in a local newspaper will do), and then completely abandon any all use of the old name. Even the venerable old 'Deed Poll' service is just a mechanism to make that initial declaration, it's actually a private register.
  - evincarofautumn 13y ago
    In the U.S. anyway, you have the right to use any name by which you represent yourself consistently without intent to defraud, much akin to a common-law marriage.
- watwut 13y ago
  The changed name is NOT a "lie". Changed name is her new name. As far as law is concerned, new name is the truth about her identity. And I'm not sure that court would take it against person if that person uses alias online. After all, it is general advice for teenagers not to reveal their names online.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    I think they were referring to "she uses an alias on facebook". I.e., Facebook requiring real names pushes the alias towards being a negative reputation component

adnam 13y ago

In some countries like Spain, you don't have a right to decide what your (legal) name is. Your parents are required to register your father's first surname as your first surname, and your mother's first surname as your second surname. You may only change the order of your surnames, and there is a specific legal process to do this.

jaimebuelta 13y ago
In Spain you can also change your given name without much problem (though it has all the inconveniences of bureaucratic processes, fees, etc) It is not possible to change from a male to a female name or viceversa (unless you are legally changing your gender, which has its own, more complicated process). There are unisex names, but are pretty uncommon in Spanish, though I guess using a foreign name could be a trick in these cases. (Note: People have two surnames in Spanish, the first one inherited normally from the father, and the second from the mother [1]) There are some cases where surnames can be changed, but they follow some rules and it's not very flexible. For example, is not uncommon to join surnames if they are "famous enough", so they will be inherited as one (keeping the reference to the famous ancestor). In case someone is curious, here is a link (in Spanish) showing the process to change name ad surnames [2] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs [2] http://www.mjusticia.gob.es/cs/Satellite/es/1200666550200/Tramite_C/1214483962185/Detalle.html http://www.mjusticia.gob.es/cs/Satellite/es/1200666550200/Tr...

abrahamsen 13y ago

> A free "social" site It is not a free service. You pay for it with your personal information. It is up to you whether you find the price too high. And with the Google+ integration, the price for using Google services is definitely on the rise.

fauigerzigerk 13y ago
True, but the price should at least be known before making the payment.

kitsune_ 13y ago

This isn't even about your own perceived "real name". If I have a relationship with a company and they know my real name I expect them not to leak it to the world. Period. My business is with them and that's about it. When you initially signed up with GMail you signed up for an e-mail address, not a public directory that links your e-mail address to your real name. When you signed up to YouTube, you signed up providing a pseudonym. The implicit assumption is that your pseudonym is used to identify yourself to other users of the same service. You did not expect your comments, your videos and interactions to be linked to your real name. The same principle applied to virtually every Google service. Google broke that trust with a series of glaring mistakes. I honestly lost any ounce of trust I ever had in Google. I have no fucking idea what they have done with my real name. Every day there is a possibility that Google has come up with yet another obscure shit service that decides to integrate itself with a user's main account and trumpet real life information to the world without the user's consent.

laumars 13y ago
> When you signed up to YouTube, you signed up providing a pseudonym. The implicit assumption is that your pseudonym is used to identify yourself to other users of the same service. You did not expect your comments, your videos and interactions to be linked to your real name. This point I particularly identify with and it's gotten to the point where I no longer comment on YouTube videos nor leave app reviews on Google Play because I don't want my real name published everywhere on the web. I can't even begin to identify with the transgender community about the issues Google have willingly created. I think it's about time the EU (or other governing body) stepped in an mandated that users are entitled to pseudonyms for internet services.
- pgeorgi 13y ago
  I doubt the EU (or other governing bodies) are very willing to help. If they were to decide, everything you put on the 'net would be digitally signed with a key on your passport. (yeah, slight hyperbole - unfortunately not too much)
  - 13y ago

spot 13y ago

this isn't the problem. you can create a google account with whatever name you want, and as long as it looks like a regular name, they will never notice and not care. the problem is they have different accounts with different names that are linked (android and g+) but the names are leaking through. it is hardly surprising that it is tricky to prevent that from a UX perspective. this actually has nothing to do with "real names".

tomp 13y ago
It's actually trivial to prevent from a programming perspective: don't automatically link accounts, and even if they are "linked" (for login purposes), don't import/export personal information from them.
- girvo 13y ago
  Now, a disclaimer -- I think how Google has approached this is dumb. But, what if linking that info allows for better UX and features for your customers? At least for the majority. There will always be edge cases, in any feature we as developers ever build... Is it really as simple as "never do that, ever"? In Google/YouTube/Google+ -- yeah, I think you can make an argument that people expected those accounts to be separate when they made them and G should not have forced them to link them. Bad form. But I honestly can see some cases where that sort of linking can be used positively. In my humble opinion, the real issue is 1. How google forced the linkages, and before their latest "Pages" feature (which is hard to use even still) didn't allow for a workaround, 2. How long everyone's google and YouTube and android accounts have existed for. You made your YouTube account thinking it was separate. Now it's not, and that's an issue, due to a (correct at the time) assumption you made in the past, and that's not your fault. It's a shame that this is such a mess. The only Google product I still use is Search these days. They lost my trust over a year ago now.
  - tomp 13y ago
    For me, as a developer and user, the main priority is only one: Don't cause irreversible consequences. That's the reason we have the "Are you sure you want to delete this?" dialogue boxes where it matters and "Undo" buttons where it doesn't. Given the nature of the internet, the developers (especially Google) should know that once you link two accounts/names, you can't unlink them, so preventing accidental linking should be their priority. This is the same reason I don't support automatic updates that introduce breaking changes, and I rarely even update my apps nowadays. This is also probably the reason I will buy an iPhone next time, even though I strongly oppose their closed-source/walled-garden philosophy - my my personal information and well-being are more important than open source, and at least I'm paying Apple with money, not information.

emhart 13y ago

I'm in the same boat. I actually didn't find out what my first name was until I was in 2nd grade and I saw my birth certificate for the first time. My parents named me "Mohandas" after Gandhi, but were concerned about that being the name I went by, so not only did I always go by "Schuyler", my 2nd name, but my 2nd, 3rd & last names were on every legal document I ever filed. About 3 years ago an agent at the RMV in MA, while looking at my birth certificate, which has all 4 names on it, decided that my license had to be issued to Mohandas. I showed her everything I had, passport, taxes, etc. yet she wouldn't relent and I couldn't figure out any way to protest it. At first it didn't really matter, until I got a letter from my bank that my car insurance was issued through, that I was Mohandas now, so far as they were concerned. Then, when I went to get a license in my new state, they also insisted, though they were much more polite about it and raised the issue up to supervisors, etc. In the end they sent me to get a current copy of my social security card, which didn't have Mohandas written on it. When I arrived at the SSA...they balked at the difference and issued me a new card with Mohandas in first, and my 3rd name dropped completely. That sealed the deal at the DMV, so now my social security number, my license, my bank statements, utilities, etc. are all issued to "Mohandas" which isn't an identity I have any connection to. Sorry for the rant, it's just been a frustrating, strange couple years as I've watched my lifelong identity transform out of my control. EDIT: Would also like to add that in the scope of the article and the very real suffering this issue is causing an already embattled minority, my issue is absolutely not comparable.

ak217 13y ago
Sorry to hear about your trouble. All of these agencies have a process for changing your name. It can be frustrating, but changing a name is a routine procedure, so it shouldn't be too hard to undo the damage (though of course would have been easier if you did it as soon as MassDOT forced you).
- emhart 13y ago
  So...I know that. And I shouldn't have said "have no connection to", that was absolutely false and just the frustration speaking. Mohandas was a name for my family and my dearest friends. As I got older, I got bolder about sharing it with many more people, but it remained something only the closest people in the world called me. My best man calls me "MoTowne" (first & last mashed up), my family at reunions occasionally say it. It makes me so happy when those people can identify me by what is an important part of my identity, but so separate from my daily life. It is bitter to me that what my father once described as a name that was "Just for us" is now on "YOU'RE PRE-APPROVED" mailings from credit companies. It is bitter to me that I'm seriously considering changing my name as I do care. And it is bitter to me that it has changed my plans for my own children. I so loved having a private, meaningful identity to those closest to me that I wanted to pass the same thing on to my children. I've had the names selected for years, yet now I feel like I'd just be subjecting them to the same sort of trouble down the line. I know it's a weirdly singular issue to have, and it's far from the end of the world, but, again quoting my father, "There's nothing wrong with having a little ambiguity about your identity." In fact...he may have even said "good to have." And I tend to agree with him. All of that said, I very much appreciate your response.