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What's the problem with wiretaps, as long as you have actual independent judicial oversight? I don't have an issue with cops listening to cartel hitmen. Conside

What's the problem with wiretaps, as long as you have actual independent judicial oversight? I don't have an issue with cops listening to cartel hitmen. Considering everybody as a suspect, that's entirely different. > It would also be wonderful if all law enforcement officers were required to wear uniforms or identify themselves when in the course of their duties. I see that now. "Hello, Don Corleone, I'm an undercover police officer, but please pretend you don't see my uniform".

angersock 13y ago
There wouldn't be cartel hitmen if the thing wasn't illegal and hence profitable. I have an issue with letting them listen--especially if I'm on the other end of the phone, for example, taking their order for pizza or arranging a playdate for my kids or something. It's the few-hops-away rule that is very easily justifiable that creates surveillance states.
- bostonpete 13y ago
  If you unknowingly were setting up a playdate for your kids with a hitman, I think you'd have a vested interest in having the guy exposed and brought to justice.
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    But if I was setting up a playdate for my kids from someone who ordered pizza from the same place as a hitman...
  - angersock 13y ago
    As long as he hasn't hurt me or mine, what's it matter? That same logic puts the friends of drone operators in a strange place, right? They kill civilians too.
    - mercurial 13y ago
      > As long as he hasn't hurt me or mine, what's it matter? You don't see anything wrong with cartel hitmen? The kind who lines up heads on the side of the road and torture people to death for effect? > That same logic puts the friends of drone operators in a strange place, right? They kill civilians too. Not quite. First off, it's much more likely that your cartel acquaintance will catch a bad case of drive-by shooting one of these days, kid or no kid. Secondly, sure, I'd feel weird knowing a drone operator, but AFAIK, they don't torture and kill civilians on purpose, it does make a moral difference.

angersock 13y ago

There wouldn't be cartel hitmen if the thing wasn't illegal and hence profitable. I have an issue with letting them listen--especially if I'm on the other end of the phone, for example, taking their order for pizza or arranging a playdate for my kids or something. It's the few-hops-away rule that is very easily justifiable that creates surveillance states.

bostonpete 13y ago
If you unknowingly were setting up a playdate for your kids with a hitman, I think you'd have a vested interest in having the guy exposed and brought to justice.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  But if I was setting up a playdate for my kids from someone who ordered pizza from the same place as a hitman...
- angersock 13y ago
  As long as he hasn't hurt me or mine, what's it matter? That same logic puts the friends of drone operators in a strange place, right? They kill civilians too.
  - mercurial 13y ago
    > As long as he hasn't hurt me or mine, what's it matter? You don't see anything wrong with cartel hitmen? The kind who lines up heads on the side of the road and torture people to death for effect? > That same logic puts the friends of drone operators in a strange place, right? They kill civilians too. Not quite. First off, it's much more likely that your cartel acquaintance will catch a bad case of drive-by shooting one of these days, kid or no kid. Secondly, sure, I'd feel weird knowing a drone operator, but AFAIK, they don't torture and kill civilians on purpose, it does make a moral difference.