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Languages are being forced down developer's throats all the time, I don't see how Objective-C is an exception. Microsoft did it with C++ and later C#. Google do

by fhd2 13y ago

Languages are being forced down developer's throats all the time, I don't see how Objective-C is an exception. Microsoft did it with C++ and later C#. Google does it with Java on Android. Netscape did it with JavaScript. I could continue. Even if a platform can technically support other languages reasonably well, whatever the platform vendor favours tends to be the most popular and best supported choice. I don't see any connection between how popular a language is and how well-designed it is.

pjmlp 13y ago
> Microsoft did it with C++ Why do people keep repeating this urban legend?! I was already doing C++ in MS-DOS (Borland), UNIX (vendor's compiler) and Windows 3.x (Borland), long before Microsoft compilers were any good. ALL C vendors were pushing for C++.
- zurn 13y ago
  Unix vendors didn't push C++-only platforms, nearly all the libraries were in C. Contrast to MFC, ATL, COM etc. (Yeah COM was supported for VB too, but C-hostile)
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    Except for CORBA, ever tried CORBA with C? UNIX enterprise programming was all about CORBA, not C related stuff. That is how we eventually got into J2EE.
    - zurn 13y ago
      The GNOME guys built an entire desktop environment on top of CORBA and C...
      - pjmlp 13y ago
        I know, and Bonobo is as pleasant to use as COM with C. While it is possible to do so, it doesn't mean it is sane to do it. But GNOME guys always hated C++ with passion anyway, from what I remember in my GTKmm days.
- fhd2 13y ago
  It's quite evident that Microsoft was pushing C++, their tooling from that time was certainly focused on it, most prominently MFC I think. Plus they never bothered to support C99 in MSVC, literally forcing people towards C++. Wasn't aware of anyone pushing C++ outside the Windows world, but I don't think it weakens my point.
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    Apple switched from Object Pascal to C++ with the Power Plant framework. Borland had Turbo Vision for C++ in MS-DOS, Object Windows Library for Borland C++ and Visual Component Library for C++ Builder. During MS-DOS days, Microsoft didn't had any C++ framework. On the UNIX world, some people were using OpenInventor for 3D visualization, CORBA for enterprise communication, portable frameworks like Rogue Wave Tools.h++, or GUI related XVT-Power++, DiaViews++. UNIX also has the birth place of C++ persistent databases like POET. There was also the Taligent project from IBM and Apple going on. IBM had SOM on OS/2. Psion Epoch used C++ alongside OPL. I can provide many more examples. Microsoft was hardly the only responsible company for C++'s adoption.

by fhd2 13y ago

pjmlp 13y ago

> Microsoft did it with C++ Why do people keep repeating this urban legend?! I was already doing C++ in MS-DOS (Borland), UNIX (vendor's compiler) and Windows 3.x (Borland), long before Microsoft compilers were any good. ALL C vendors were pushing for C++.

zurn 13y ago
Unix vendors didn't push C++-only platforms, nearly all the libraries were in C. Contrast to MFC, ATL, COM etc. (Yeah COM was supported for VB too, but C-hostile)
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Except for CORBA, ever tried CORBA with C? UNIX enterprise programming was all about CORBA, not C related stuff. That is how we eventually got into J2EE.
  - zurn 13y ago
    The GNOME guys built an entire desktop environment on top of CORBA and C...
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      I know, and Bonobo is as pleasant to use as COM with C. While it is possible to do so, it doesn't mean it is sane to do it. But GNOME guys always hated C++ with passion anyway, from what I remember in my GTKmm days.
fhd2 13y ago
It's quite evident that Microsoft was pushing C++, their tooling from that time was certainly focused on it, most prominently MFC I think. Plus they never bothered to support C99 in MSVC, literally forcing people towards C++. Wasn't aware of anyone pushing C++ outside the Windows world, but I don't think it weakens my point.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Apple switched from Object Pascal to C++ with the Power Plant framework. Borland had Turbo Vision for C++ in MS-DOS, Object Windows Library for Borland C++ and Visual Component Library for C++ Builder. During MS-DOS days, Microsoft didn't had any C++ framework. On the UNIX world, some people were using OpenInventor for 3D visualization, CORBA for enterprise communication, portable frameworks like Rogue Wave Tools.h++, or GUI related XVT-Power++, DiaViews++. UNIX also has the birth place of C++ persistent databases like POET. There was also the Taligent project from IBM and Apple going on. IBM had SOM on OS/2. Psion Epoch used C++ alongside OPL. I can provide many more examples. Microsoft was hardly the only responsible company for C++'s adoption.