3 ms·

Palm needs a homerun, but bunted with the webOS SDK

19 points by blasdel 17y ago

forgotmypasswd 17y ago
I imagine that eventually Palm will figure out a way to provide native access to the features he wants. I just hope Palm is more developer friendly than Apple. Specifically, I don't want to have to deal with certificates and the App Store anymore, but I'm skeptical of Palm making it that open.
mdasen 17y ago
The problem isn't that Palm bunted. It's not like they wanted to bunt or consciously made that choice. The problem is that it's the only move they could make. It took Apple a year to get their SDK out. Palm is a smaller company and while, doubtless, they learned a lot from Apple's experiences, it doesn't change the fact that it takes a while to make a good SDK. Hopefully, over time, Palm will be able to do better. But it's amazing that Palm was able to put together such a nice device in the first place. If they didn't paint themselves into a corner that they can't get out of, they could extend the SDK to do what it's currently lacking while getting an SDK out that handles many applications today. Often, it comes down to doing what you're able to do. You can't just choose the best. You have to work at it and that takes time. Hopefully Palm will be able to do well :-).
jmtulloss 17y ago
(Disclosure: I work at Palm) The SDK that was released is the same SDK that almost all of Palm's apps are built on. If, as the article says, it's a solid 1.0 release with a "nice OS and user interface", then it must be possible to build great software with the SDK.
- wmf 17y ago
  Does Palm ship any games?
- potatolicious 17y ago
  I don't like the tone here - the article brings up some very legitimate shortcomings in the webOS SDK, shortcomings that will make it difficult for Palm to compete with Apple (and let's face it, that's precisely the showdown we're going to see). Instead of brushing it off with "well we find it fine to work with" why don't you address the issues directly?
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - jmtulloss 17y ago
    I didn't intend to brush it off, but the assumption in the article seems to be that the SDK is this playpen that Palm has belted developers into. Of course developers don't have full access to every internal API yet, but this is a real SDK that real, solid apps have been developed on. High performance apps are clearly not the focus of this SDK, and suggesting the SDK is inadequate because of this ignores the areas where the SDK shines. Perhaps I'll post something later about my favorite parts.
    - potatolicious 17y ago
      I look forward to it (no sarcasm intended at all), and looking forward to giving the SDK a whirl myself. If only there was a way to buy a device without the requisite contract... I sincerely hope Palm comes up with a SDK that gives much lower level access to the machine - and something more performant than JS. A lot of the iPhone's prowess comes from the fact that it can run some seriously beefy apps very quickly. Obj-C is no slouch when it comes to speed.
- jsz0 17y ago
  Do you expect we'll see more signifiant OS updates now that the SDK is nearing completion?
ingenium 17y ago
Sure, it would have been better if these features were in a 1.0 release, but Palm doesn't need to take away Apple customers right now. There are a lot of people who don't want AT&T service or don't want to pay the extra for the iPhone plan. So the market is large and growing, especially as more people buy the Pre (and Palm's upcoming devices for AT&T and Verizon). Sure apps won't not be as "rich" at first, but there is still going to be a demand for the simpler ones. It may be harder to have, and get profits from, a "hit" for the iPhone. However, I bet your expected return on a simple Pre app is higher than releasing an iPhone app. The app store is so big it's hard to get noticed. You could even just clone existing iPhone apps. They sold once, they will sell again. Once the SDK is advanced enough to let you have more access to the hardware, the market will be ready for those apps. Sure it'd be great to have them now, but they'll come. In the meantime, you can build the easier apps. I suppose if you really wanted to, you could get access to it as long as you're willing to do a little reverse engineering. Some ideas: 1. Direct Framebuffer (http://predev.wikidot.com/directfb http://predev.wikidot.com/directfb). I don't know much about OpenGL programming, but this might be able to be used. Doom runs on it, so perhaps there's a way through that. 2. The built in apps must execute some type of native code. For example, when the phone app initiates a call. Does it somehow make a call to a local shell script or app? You could use that to write stuff in whatever language you wanted and have it talk back to js app. The tools are available to compile executables for the platform. Be the first to figure this out and you've got a great head start, because I'm confident this is how Palm will do it. Or even release your app outside the App Store; you don't need to "root" a Pre to install an app. A person downloads an "installer" on their computer, plugs in their Pre, and runs the program. It installs it on the phone over USB. No hacking required. You'd have to do payment processing yourself obviously. Note: I also recognize that games make up a large number of iPhone app purchases, but there are still a lot of games you could make for the Pre with the SDK's limitations.

19 points by blasdel 17y ago

I imagine that eventually Palm will figure out a way to provide native access to the features he wants. I just hope Palm is more developer friendly than Apple. Specifically, I don't want to have to deal with certificates and the App Store anymore, but I'm skeptical of Palm making it that open.

mdasen 17y ago

The problem isn't that Palm bunted. It's not like they wanted to bunt or consciously made that choice. The problem is that it's the only move they could make. It took Apple a year to get their SDK out. Palm is a smaller company and while, doubtless, they learned a lot from Apple's experiences, it doesn't change the fact that it takes a while to make a good SDK. Hopefully, over time, Palm will be able to do better. But it's amazing that Palm was able to put together such a nice device in the first place. If they didn't paint themselves into a corner that they can't get out of, they could extend the SDK to do what it's currently lacking while getting an SDK out that handles many applications today. Often, it comes down to doing what you're able to do. You can't just choose the best. You have to work at it and that takes time. Hopefully Palm will be able to do well :-).

jmtulloss 17y ago

(Disclosure: I work at Palm) The SDK that was released is the same SDK that almost all of Palm's apps are built on. If, as the article says, it's a solid 1.0 release with a "nice OS and user interface", then it must be possible to build great software with the SDK.

wmf 17y ago
Does Palm ship any games?
potatolicious 17y ago
I don't like the tone here - the article brings up some very legitimate shortcomings in the webOS SDK, shortcomings that will make it difficult for Palm to compete with Apple (and let's face it, that's precisely the showdown we're going to see). Instead of brushing it off with "well we find it fine to work with" why don't you address the issues directly?
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- jmtulloss 17y ago
  I didn't intend to brush it off, but the assumption in the article seems to be that the SDK is this playpen that Palm has belted developers into. Of course developers don't have full access to every internal API yet, but this is a real SDK that real, solid apps have been developed on. High performance apps are clearly not the focus of this SDK, and suggesting the SDK is inadequate because of this ignores the areas where the SDK shines. Perhaps I'll post something later about my favorite parts.
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    I look forward to it (no sarcasm intended at all), and looking forward to giving the SDK a whirl myself. If only there was a way to buy a device without the requisite contract... I sincerely hope Palm comes up with a SDK that gives much lower level access to the machine - and something more performant than JS. A lot of the iPhone's prowess comes from the fact that it can run some seriously beefy apps very quickly. Obj-C is no slouch when it comes to speed.
jsz0 17y ago
Do you expect we'll see more signifiant OS updates now that the SDK is nearing completion?

ingenium 17y ago

Sure, it would have been better if these features were in a 1.0 release, but Palm doesn't need to take away Apple customers right now. There are a lot of people who don't want AT&T service or don't want to pay the extra for the iPhone plan. So the market is large and growing, especially as more people buy the Pre (and Palm's upcoming devices for AT&T and Verizon). Sure apps won't not be as "rich" at first, but there is still going to be a demand for the simpler ones. It may be harder to have, and get profits from, a "hit" for the iPhone. However, I bet your expected return on a simple Pre app is higher than releasing an iPhone app. The app store is so big it's hard to get noticed. You could even just clone existing iPhone apps. They sold once, they will sell again. Once the SDK is advanced enough to let you have more access to the hardware, the market will be ready for those apps. Sure it'd be great to have them now, but they'll come. In the meantime, you can build the easier apps. I suppose if you really wanted to, you could get access to it as long as you're willing to do a little reverse engineering. Some ideas: 1. Direct Framebuffer (http://predev.wikidot.com/directfb http://predev.wikidot.com/directfb). I don't know much about OpenGL programming, but this might be able to be used. Doom runs on it, so perhaps there's a way through that. 2. The built in apps must execute some type of native code. For example, when the phone app initiates a call. Does it somehow make a call to a local shell script or app? You could use that to write stuff in whatever language you wanted and have it talk back to js app. The tools are available to compile executables for the platform. Be the first to figure this out and you've got a great head start, because I'm confident this is how Palm will do it. Or even release your app outside the App Store; you don't need to "root" a Pre to install an app. A person downloads an "installer" on their computer, plugs in their Pre, and runs the program. It installs it on the phone over USB. No hacking required. You'd have to do payment processing yourself obviously. Note: I also recognize that games make up a large number of iPhone app purchases, but there are still a lot of games you could make for the Pre with the SDK's limitations.