7 ms·

There are lasting legal, technical and support operations that we are willing to take on long term if the market's big enough to support it. Otherwise, it's not

by dalton 13y ago

There are lasting legal, technical and support operations that we are willing to take on long term if the market's big enough to support it. Otherwise, it's not worth the effort to implement those long term.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
GigabyteCoin 13y ago
How so? They're transacting through coinbase. It's no different than accepting PayPal payments legally or technically. Buyers understand that if there is a dispute they will only receive the amount paid in USD, not BTC.
- msquared 13y ago
  Buyer spends 1 BTC @ $800 USD/BTC. Value of BTC goes down to $400 USD/BTC. Seller left with 1 BTC worth $400 (if they don't cash out). Buyer requests refund of value @ $800. Seller has 1 BTC @ $400. I guess this would be mitigated by immediate exchanges... Haven't used Coinbase enough to know how well this would work, specifically their merchant services, but what's the per-transaction cost to immediately exchange BTC on transactions? Also, I've seen buy/sell prices on CB - is that the same in their merchant accounts? I see daily cashouts as a merchant option, but that doesn't entirely remove the fear of a market crash. Or even smaller daily variations (morning price high, evening price low, etc). I could see how there would be at least some potential for long-term concern.
  - ry0ohki 13y ago
    If you are a US citizen and purchase something from a British site in pounds, you wouldn't expect a refund in dollars would you? You assume the risk of currency fluctuation and fees.
  - GigabyteCoin 13y ago
    That's not how coinbase (the company app.net is working with) works, though. The second somebody makes a payment via BTC through coinbase for an app.net project, the BTC is cashed out on the fastest exchange possible and the fiat value of that BTC directly sent to app.net whenever they please.
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    > Buyer spends 1 BTC @ $800 USD/BTC. Value of BTC goes down to $400 USD/BTC. Seller left with 1 BTC worth $400 No, seller never sees BTC, buyers BTC are immediately turned into USD and seller gets USD. No fear of market crash, they're getting the instant exchange rate.
martindale 13y ago
There are ways to make this easier on you--for example, BitPay [1] offers to take on the burden of handling the BTC, and gives you next-day deposit in USD. Far better (read: faster) than Credit Card processing in most cases (no chargebacks). [1]: disclaimer: they just hired me.
pdeuchler 13y ago
As someone who spent a lot of time working with BTC in a professional sense, this statement rings a little hollow considering you're using Coinbase. Can you elaborate?
- dalton 13y ago
  App.net is a subscription service. We have a subscription state machine that works great with Stripe. We have systems to deal with upgrades, downgrades, proration, shifting to different plans. Additionally this requires us changing our accounting systems and wading into new tax complexities. It's fascinating to me that people think that for any retailer to accept Bitcoin it's as easy as embedding a widget on their site. I have been comparing notes with other companies that are also considering adding Bitcoin support and these are the sorts of questions that come up.
  - natrius 13y ago
    "Additionally this requires us changing our accounting systems and wading into new tax complexities." That's only because you're setting prices in BTC instead of USD, right? I always thought accepting BTC through Coinbase for USD-denominated goods and services had no tax implications.
  - Touche 13y ago
    > It's fascinating to me that people think that for any retailer to accept Bitcoin it's as easy as embedding a widget on their site. The only downside you've listed is that you mistakenly tied your subscription code with one payment provider.
  - pdeuchler 13y ago
    Gotchya, thanks for the response. I wasn't aware app.net utilized such a complex billing system.
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  Even if you have Coinbase turning BTC -> USD automatically, there are still issues. Here's just one: I purchase something on Overstock for 0.5 BTC. The item has an issue, and I want a refund. In the meantime, the price of BTC/USD has fluctuated 20%. What happens? This question is not insurmountable, obviously. But there are tons of edge cases that need to be thought of and dealt with.

by dalton 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

GigabyteCoin 13y ago

How so? They're transacting through coinbase. It's no different than accepting PayPal payments legally or technically. Buyers understand that if there is a dispute they will only receive the amount paid in USD, not BTC.

msquared 13y ago
Buyer spends 1 BTC @ $800 USD/BTC. Value of BTC goes down to $400 USD/BTC. Seller left with 1 BTC worth $400 (if they don't cash out). Buyer requests refund of value @ $800. Seller has 1 BTC @ $400. I guess this would be mitigated by immediate exchanges... Haven't used Coinbase enough to know how well this would work, specifically their merchant services, but what's the per-transaction cost to immediately exchange BTC on transactions? Also, I've seen buy/sell prices on CB - is that the same in their merchant accounts? I see daily cashouts as a merchant option, but that doesn't entirely remove the fear of a market crash. Or even smaller daily variations (morning price high, evening price low, etc). I could see how there would be at least some potential for long-term concern.
- ry0ohki 13y ago
  If you are a US citizen and purchase something from a British site in pounds, you wouldn't expect a refund in dollars would you? You assume the risk of currency fluctuation and fees.
- GigabyteCoin 13y ago
  That's not how coinbase (the company app.net is working with) works, though. The second somebody makes a payment via BTC through coinbase for an app.net project, the BTC is cashed out on the fastest exchange possible and the fiat value of that BTC directly sent to app.net whenever they please.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  > Buyer spends 1 BTC @ $800 USD/BTC. Value of BTC goes down to $400 USD/BTC. Seller left with 1 BTC worth $400 No, seller never sees BTC, buyers BTC are immediately turned into USD and seller gets USD. No fear of market crash, they're getting the instant exchange rate.

martindale 13y ago

There are ways to make this easier on you--for example, BitPay [1] offers to take on the burden of handling the BTC, and gives you next-day deposit in USD. Far better (read: faster) than Credit Card processing in most cases (no chargebacks). [1]: disclaimer: they just hired me.

pdeuchler 13y ago

As someone who spent a lot of time working with BTC in a professional sense, this statement rings a little hollow considering you're using Coinbase. Can you elaborate?

dalton 13y ago
App.net is a subscription service. We have a subscription state machine that works great with Stripe. We have systems to deal with upgrades, downgrades, proration, shifting to different plans. Additionally this requires us changing our accounting systems and wading into new tax complexities. It's fascinating to me that people think that for any retailer to accept Bitcoin it's as easy as embedding a widget on their site. I have been comparing notes with other companies that are also considering adding Bitcoin support and these are the sorts of questions that come up.
- natrius 13y ago
  "Additionally this requires us changing our accounting systems and wading into new tax complexities." That's only because you're setting prices in BTC instead of USD, right? I always thought accepting BTC through Coinbase for USD-denominated goods and services had no tax implications.
- Touche 13y ago
  > It's fascinating to me that people think that for any retailer to accept Bitcoin it's as easy as embedding a widget on their site. The only downside you've listed is that you mistakenly tied your subscription code with one payment provider.
- pdeuchler 13y ago
  Gotchya, thanks for the response. I wasn't aware app.net utilized such a complex billing system.
steveklabnik 13y ago
Even if you have Coinbase turning BTC -> USD automatically, there are still issues. Here's just one: I purchase something on Overstock for 0.5 BTC. The item has an issue, and I want a refund. In the meantime, the price of BTC/USD has fluctuated 20%. What happens? This question is not insurmountable, obviously. But there are tons of edge cases that need to be thought of and dealt with.