6 ms·

Nearby Galaxy M82 Hosts a New Supernova

68 points by throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
mmanfrin 13y ago
Man these Samsung phones just keep getting bigger and bigger.
bjackman 13y ago
Awesome! How often do astronomers catch supernovae like this?
- drivers99 13y ago
  How often do they catch supernovae in general? Really often apparently: http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/lists/Supernovae.html http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/lists/Supernovae.html If you mean like the 8th magnitude that this article says it could reach, then the last one to come close (and surpass it by far) was 1987A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A) at 4.5 magnitude (I remember hearing about that when I was a kid). 1972E was 8.5. 1954A was 9.8. 1937C was 8.4. 1895B is listed as 8.0. 1885A at 5.8. There are some negative magnitude ones listed at the end of the list (1006, 1054, 1572, 1604) which were within the Milky Way. (There are wikipedia articles about those supernovae and older ones as well.)
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  Fairly often. There are a couple ways that supernovae get spotted. Sometimes an amateur astronomer will find a supernova, there are lots of folks who actually do this as a hobby and surprisingly it's something that such folks can actually be fairly productive about, but it requires a lot of work. Also, there are various ongoing sky surveys of various sorts including asteroid detection programs which typically pick up supernova at a fairly regular rate merely due to being able to observe a huge number of galaxies in any given night (since supernovae are typically bright for periods of many days to weeks). Additionally, we've deployed a variety of satellites that have "transient detectors" designed to look for the signs of gamma ray bursts but also capable of detecting ordinary supernovae, sometimes. For example, in 2013 over 230 supernovae were discovered. And currently there are about 3 dozen active supernovae that can be viewed with a telescope, but most of them are fairly dim in very distant galaxies and would require a fairly sizable telescope to be able to see (~300mm aperture or so). The M82 supernova is the only one that is currently visible with an ordinary backyard telescope or binoculars.
throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
"Given the fact that it’s nearby, up high for so many observers, and caught so early, this may become one of the best-observed supernovae in modern times." "[...] But the good news is it appears to have been discovered about two weeks before it hits peak brightness. Supernovae get brighter over time before fading away, and this one may get as bright as 8th magnitude, which is within range of binoculars."
nmc 13y ago
“And just to get this out of the way, we’re in no danger from this explosion. It’s far too far away.” Also, it happened 12 million years ago, so I think we are pretty safe.
- gabipurcaru 13y ago
  How is this an argument? If I shoot a bullet from a very distant planet and it will reach Earth after 12M years, will you be safe if it came directly towards you?
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Surely after 12M years, the bullet will have rusted to dust in-flight? :)
    - throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
      No, it would have been perfectly preserved, hanging motionless in a dry vacuum. Archivists would be envious. Speaking of archivists: http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/31242-rosetta-disk-goes-back-to-the-future/ http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/31242-rosetta-disk-goes-back-to-t... http://blog.longnow.org/02009/05/21/what-13500-pages-micro-etched-into-nickel-looks-like/ http://blog.longnow.org/02009/05/21/what-13500-pages-micro-e... (this is the object of yesterday's HN story https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7092313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7092313)
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Oh I know, just kidding :)
    - pavel_lishin 13y ago
      Not enough oxygen for it to rust. And even if it were, a collection of dust traveling at bullet speeds would still probably kill you. But worry not! A bullet fired from 12 million light years away would probably be ablated into nothing by the interstellar dust.
splat 13y ago
This supernova will be very important for figuring out what Type Ia SNe are. As Phil Plait mentions, astronomers only know that white dwarfs are involved, but there are several competing models as to how the white dwarf(s) explode. One of the main ways we will be able to distinguish between these models is by observing what the supernova looks like long after the explosion since this is when the shock will be interacting with distant material. Because this supernova is so close we will be able to observe it long after the explosion and will therefore be able to observe its interactions with very distant material. This is important because the so-called single-degenerate model in which a red giant dumps material onto the white dwarf is expected to produce very faint hydrogen lines. Observing these hydrogen lines in the spectrum would be a smoking gun for the single degenerate model. On the other hand, if they are not observed, it would put very tight constraints on how the single degenerate model could work. Another reason these observations will be useful is that head-on collisions between white dwarfs are expected to produce two separate explosions with different velocities -- this then produces double peaks in the spectral lines [1]. Sometimes these are hard to observe because the SNe are so far away, however. They will be most easily observable in this SN. If they're found it would be a smoking gun for a head-on collision between two white dwarfs. [1] http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.3347 http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.3347
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  My understanding is that there are three competing theories which have the strongest claim on explaining Type Ia supernovae. The classic theory is that a non-white dwarf companion star feeds material onto a white dwarf, which increases its mass. This kicks off a complicated chain of events, some of which may occur over timescales of a thousand years, ultimately culminating in the initiation of fusion reactions (initially Carbon, then Oxygen) in the core of the white dwarf. The fusion reactions release heat, but because the white dwarf is already under electron degeneracy conditions it is unable to increase pressure and expand to moderate the fusion reactions, so instead they are caught in a very strong positive feedback loop. In a matter of seconds the fusion reactions consume all of the Carbon in the star and then begin consuming the Oxygen in the inner core, this process releases more than enough energy to completely unbind the star gravitationally, the star explodes in a supernova. Alternately, it's also possible that a white dwarf star could have more than enough mass to undergo a Type Ia explosion but is kept in check by rapid spinning. As the star ages and the spinning slows down it crosses a boundary where the above events occur. Or, two white dwarfs could instead merge with each other. It's actually likely, in my opinion, that all three models contribute to Type Ia events in nature, but it's currently unknown which variety is the most common cause of such supernovae.
songzme 13y ago
Its very sad to think about all the aliens living in or around the M82 galaxy. I hope they managed to invent inter-galactic space travel in time to escape to another solar system safely. God bless them.
- cjfont 13y ago
  You mean another galaxy, assuming the supernova would create inhospitable conditions throughout all of M82.
  - mhurron 13y ago
    A supernova is a big explosion, but I don't think it's quite 'galaxy sanitizing' big.
    - Tossrock 13y ago
      An appellation reserved for gamma ray bursts (and only within the emission cones).
      - gbhn 13y ago
        http://what-if.xkcd.com/73/ http://what-if.xkcd.com/73/ A nearby supernova would definitely be sterilizing to the kind of life found on Earth, and to a lot of other imaginable forms. Of course, "nearby" in astronomical terms is sometimes unintuitive. :-)
  - deletes 13y ago
    I'm pretty sure that 99% of that galaxy didn't feel a thing. The size of m82 is 40000ly and a largest supernovae will affect( not necessarily destroy stuff ), 3000ly around itself. Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-Earth_supernova http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-Earth_supernova
- outworlder 13y ago
  It may be sad for any aliens living around the star itself and nearby solar systems. The rest of the galaxy won't feel a thing. This is not the 'Star Trek' movie where, for some weird reason I'll never understand, a supernova was a catastrophic event, for civilizations with FTL travel. If our own sun turned into a supernova (not possible btw), the nearby star wouldn't even see that for about 4 years, best case. And that would be just the radiation, matter would take hundreds, if not thousands of years to get there. So it is not like they wouldn't have any warning. And that's for the closest star.
nolanpro 13y ago
Old news. that happend 12,000,000 years ago...
- ptbello 13y ago
  OP should have appended [-11,997,986] to the title
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- aaronem 13y ago
  (11,997,987 BCE)
  - Sharlin 13y ago
    Yes, because that's how significant digits work.
    - aaronem 13y ago
      Oh, picky, picky, picky.
- Sharlin 13y ago
  It doesn't really make sense to talk about points in time in reference frames other than ours.
- wlievens 13y ago
  Heh. It depends on how you interpret relativity I think.
- qoo 13y ago
  News cannot travel faster than the Speed of Light.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  People always say this sort of thing when talking about distant events, it's not actually true. When we're talking about long distances then the relativity of simultaneity comes into play strongly. There is no universal ordering of events, there is a substantial degree of relativity to ordering of events that are separated by great distances. And, in fact, the only hard boundaries on this ordering are the "light cones" connecting events. In one reference frame the M82 supernova could have happened 12 million years ago, in another reference frame it could have happened a year ago, or two years ago, or even 20 million years ago. In the reference frame of any neutrinos that happened to have been created in the supernova it would have occurred mere seconds or hours before the first light reached Earth.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

mmanfrin 13y ago

Man these Samsung phones just keep getting bigger and bigger.

bjackman 13y ago

Awesome! How often do astronomers catch supernovae like this?

drivers99 13y ago
How often do they catch supernovae in general? Really often apparently: http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/lists/Supernovae.html http://www.cbat.eps.harvard.edu/lists/Supernovae.html If you mean like the 8th magnitude that this article says it could reach, then the last one to come close (and surpass it by far) was 1987A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A) at 4.5 magnitude (I remember hearing about that when I was a kid). 1972E was 8.5. 1954A was 9.8. 1937C was 8.4. 1895B is listed as 8.0. 1885A at 5.8. There are some negative magnitude ones listed at the end of the list (1006, 1054, 1572, 1604) which were within the Milky Way. (There are wikipedia articles about those supernovae and older ones as well.)
InclinedPlane 13y ago
Fairly often. There are a couple ways that supernovae get spotted. Sometimes an amateur astronomer will find a supernova, there are lots of folks who actually do this as a hobby and surprisingly it's something that such folks can actually be fairly productive about, but it requires a lot of work. Also, there are various ongoing sky surveys of various sorts including asteroid detection programs which typically pick up supernova at a fairly regular rate merely due to being able to observe a huge number of galaxies in any given night (since supernovae are typically bright for periods of many days to weeks). Additionally, we've deployed a variety of satellites that have "transient detectors" designed to look for the signs of gamma ray bursts but also capable of detecting ordinary supernovae, sometimes. For example, in 2013 over 230 supernovae were discovered. And currently there are about 3 dozen active supernovae that can be viewed with a telescope, but most of them are fairly dim in very distant galaxies and would require a fairly sizable telescope to be able to see (~300mm aperture or so). The M82 supernova is the only one that is currently visible with an ordinary backyard telescope or binoculars.

throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago

"Given the fact that it’s nearby, up high for so many observers, and caught so early, this may become one of the best-observed supernovae in modern times." "[...] But the good news is it appears to have been discovered about two weeks before it hits peak brightness. Supernovae get brighter over time before fading away, and this one may get as bright as 8th magnitude, which is within range of binoculars."

nmc 13y ago

“And just to get this out of the way, we’re in no danger from this explosion. It’s far too far away.” Also, it happened 12 million years ago, so I think we are pretty safe.

gabipurcaru 13y ago
How is this an argument? If I shoot a bullet from a very distant planet and it will reach Earth after 12M years, will you be safe if it came directly towards you?
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Surely after 12M years, the bullet will have rusted to dust in-flight? :)
  - throwaway_yy2Di 13y ago
    No, it would have been perfectly preserved, hanging motionless in a dry vacuum. Archivists would be envious. Speaking of archivists: http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/31242-rosetta-disk-goes-back-to-the-future/ http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/31242-rosetta-disk-goes-back-to-t... http://blog.longnow.org/02009/05/21/what-13500-pages-micro-etched-into-nickel-looks-like/ http://blog.longnow.org/02009/05/21/what-13500-pages-micro-e... (this is the object of yesterday's HN story https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7092313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7092313)
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Oh I know, just kidding :)
  - pavel_lishin 13y ago
    Not enough oxygen for it to rust. And even if it were, a collection of dust traveling at bullet speeds would still probably kill you. But worry not! A bullet fired from 12 million light years away would probably be ablated into nothing by the interstellar dust.

splat 13y ago

This supernova will be very important for figuring out what Type Ia SNe are. As Phil Plait mentions, astronomers only know that white dwarfs are involved, but there are several competing models as to how the white dwarf(s) explode. One of the main ways we will be able to distinguish between these models is by observing what the supernova looks like long after the explosion since this is when the shock will be interacting with distant material. Because this supernova is so close we will be able to observe it long after the explosion and will therefore be able to observe its interactions with very distant material. This is important because the so-called single-degenerate model in which a red giant dumps material onto the white dwarf is expected to produce very faint hydrogen lines. Observing these hydrogen lines in the spectrum would be a smoking gun for the single degenerate model. On the other hand, if they are not observed, it would put very tight constraints on how the single degenerate model could work. Another reason these observations will be useful is that head-on collisions between white dwarfs are expected to produce two separate explosions with different velocities -- this then produces double peaks in the spectral lines [1]. Sometimes these are hard to observe because the SNe are so far away, however. They will be most easily observable in this SN. If they're found it would be a smoking gun for a head-on collision between two white dwarfs. [1] http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.3347 http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.3347

InclinedPlane 13y ago
My understanding is that there are three competing theories which have the strongest claim on explaining Type Ia supernovae. The classic theory is that a non-white dwarf companion star feeds material onto a white dwarf, which increases its mass. This kicks off a complicated chain of events, some of which may occur over timescales of a thousand years, ultimately culminating in the initiation of fusion reactions (initially Carbon, then Oxygen) in the core of the white dwarf. The fusion reactions release heat, but because the white dwarf is already under electron degeneracy conditions it is unable to increase pressure and expand to moderate the fusion reactions, so instead they are caught in a very strong positive feedback loop. In a matter of seconds the fusion reactions consume all of the Carbon in the star and then begin consuming the Oxygen in the inner core, this process releases more than enough energy to completely unbind the star gravitationally, the star explodes in a supernova. Alternately, it's also possible that a white dwarf star could have more than enough mass to undergo a Type Ia explosion but is kept in check by rapid spinning. As the star ages and the spinning slows down it crosses a boundary where the above events occur. Or, two white dwarfs could instead merge with each other. It's actually likely, in my opinion, that all three models contribute to Type Ia events in nature, but it's currently unknown which variety is the most common cause of such supernovae.

songzme 13y ago

Its very sad to think about all the aliens living in or around the M82 galaxy. I hope they managed to invent inter-galactic space travel in time to escape to another solar system safely. God bless them.

cjfont 13y ago
You mean another galaxy, assuming the supernova would create inhospitable conditions throughout all of M82.
- mhurron 13y ago
  A supernova is a big explosion, but I don't think it's quite 'galaxy sanitizing' big.
  - Tossrock 13y ago
    An appellation reserved for gamma ray bursts (and only within the emission cones).
    - gbhn 13y ago
      http://what-if.xkcd.com/73/ http://what-if.xkcd.com/73/ A nearby supernova would definitely be sterilizing to the kind of life found on Earth, and to a lot of other imaginable forms. Of course, "nearby" in astronomical terms is sometimes unintuitive. :-)
- deletes 13y ago
  I'm pretty sure that 99% of that galaxy didn't feel a thing. The size of m82 is 40000ly and a largest supernovae will affect( not necessarily destroy stuff ), 3000ly around itself. Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-Earth_supernova http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-Earth_supernova
outworlder 13y ago
It may be sad for any aliens living around the star itself and nearby solar systems. The rest of the galaxy won't feel a thing. This is not the 'Star Trek' movie where, for some weird reason I'll never understand, a supernova was a catastrophic event, for civilizations with FTL travel. If our own sun turned into a supernova (not possible btw), the nearby star wouldn't even see that for about 4 years, best case. And that would be just the radiation, matter would take hundreds, if not thousands of years to get there. So it is not like they wouldn't have any warning. And that's for the closest star.

nolanpro 13y ago

Old news. that happend 12,000,000 years ago...

ptbello 13y ago
OP should have appended [-11,997,986] to the title
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
aaronem 13y ago
(11,997,987 BCE)
- Sharlin 13y ago
  Yes, because that's how significant digits work.
  - aaronem 13y ago
    Oh, picky, picky, picky.
Sharlin 13y ago
It doesn't really make sense to talk about points in time in reference frames other than ours.
wlievens 13y ago
Heh. It depends on how you interpret relativity I think.
qoo 13y ago
News cannot travel faster than the Speed of Light.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
People always say this sort of thing when talking about distant events, it's not actually true. When we're talking about long distances then the relativity of simultaneity comes into play strongly. There is no universal ordering of events, there is a substantial degree of relativity to ordering of events that are separated by great distances. And, in fact, the only hard boundaries on this ordering are the "light cones" connecting events. In one reference frame the M82 supernova could have happened 12 million years ago, in another reference frame it could have happened a year ago, or two years ago, or even 20 million years ago. In the reference frame of any neutrinos that happened to have been created in the supernova it would have occurred mere seconds or hours before the first light reached Earth.