4 ms·

Excellent. If engineers and technologists refuse to take personal political and ethical responsibility for the future they help build, they need to be reminded

by mgunes 13y ago

Excellent. If engineers and technologists refuse to take personal political and ethical responsibility for the future they help build, they need to be reminded to do so. We need more of this.

walshemj 13y ago
so Googlers should take things into their own hands and take "action direct" against those harassing them.
- aaronem 13y ago
  Are you seriously suggesting, Citizen, that the same standard applies both to the oppressor and the oppressed? Have a care, Citizen; such regressionist attitudes court accusations of reactionism.
  - walshemj 13y ago
    Of course not as a professional any excesses are just officer class high jinks - nothing to see hear run along like a good chap won't you
tsax 13y ago
^^ left-wing degeneracy for all to see. popcorn
- walshemj 13y ago
  smiles you think I coming at this from a right-wing perspective lol.
  - tomp 13y ago
    No I just think that your comment did in absolutely no way make this discussion better.
    - walshemj 13y ago
      In what way - I agree that responding with violence would not be a good first response at some point you do have to take a stand. Maybe the bus drivers from all the tech company could protest against this threat to their livelihood and stage a drive in and shutdown the city like the french farmers do by driving extremely slowly though the city.
  - tsax 13y ago
    Sorry dude I was replying to the parent comment, not yours.
- pacofvf 13y ago
  What does left-wing have to do with this?, stupidity doesn't requires a political affiliation. Actually all governements in the world are left-wing by American standards.
hadem 13y ago
I've never felt the need for a down vote button for a comment on Hacker News until now. Yes, we should be ethically aware of the tools and products we build, but this is not the way to go about this! Harassing a man at his home like this is unnecessary and aggressive. Please stop the promotion of individual harassment.
- goldenkey 13y ago
  You claim that it's unnecessary and aggressive yet you do not discount its effectiveness. Therefore I'm going to discount your argument. Protest is worth it when its effective. And we're reading about it, so its done its job. Protest need not be cozy, clean, friendly, or Batemanish.
  - hadem 13y ago
    I never claim effectiveness. Reading an article about a protest and a protest causing actual change are two very different things. I don't see what job was done.
- mgunes 13y ago
  When people block Google busses, and break one window of one bus, it's inappropriate violence on par with barbarism [1]. When people peacefully protest a Google employee and try to raise awareness in his neighborhood of his activities that they disagree with, it's individual harassment. Isn't that just lovely? Hacker News: privileged technologists setting the standards for techno-skeptical protest. Tell us what the proper way to go about it (outside the established means of the sham that is representative parliamentary democracy, of course) is, then. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6951468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6951468
  - FireBeyond 13y ago
    "We intend to prevent you and your family from leaving your home" - by what means do these protestors feel acceptable? Verbal? Staring intimidatingly? Pushing his wife back as she crosses the property line? Punching his child? Drawing guns? When you explicitly state, and act, with the intention to prevent people from leaving their own home, effectively placing them in a state of house arrest, then sorry, your protest is no longer any more peaceful than the force implied by that house arrest. Hiding behind "raising awareness in the neighborhood" is a disingenuous sham that exposes a duplicity. What relevance has "representative parliamentary democracy" to your argument other than to make you feel martyred? Remember, you are actively threatening a family that you will not let them leave their home, there is a distinct, and real, fear of how far you will go to do so. For all your "blocking busses, and breaking one window" (carefully emphasized to minimize), there's the Seattle WTO protests and everything in between, and a distinct set of people who -will- resort to violence that constitutes a non-zero threat to this man and his family's well being that you wave away as nothing. At least have the courage of your convictions and stop pretending it's just some people "raising awareness".
matthewmacleod 13y ago
Who says they're not? I'm fairly sure that the correct approach to effecting political and ethical change is not harassing employees of tech firms in this way.
kevinchen 13y ago
No, we don't need more of these pseudo-news articles. Who the hell keeps posting them to HN?

by mgunes 13y ago

Excellent. If engineers and technologists refuse to take personal political and ethical responsibility for the future they help build, they need to be reminded to do so. We need more of this.

walshemj 13y ago

so Googlers should take things into their own hands and take "action direct" against those harassing them.

aaronem 13y ago
Are you seriously suggesting, Citizen, that the same standard applies both to the oppressor and the oppressed? Have a care, Citizen; such regressionist attitudes court accusations of reactionism.
- walshemj 13y ago
  Of course not as a professional any excesses are just officer class high jinks - nothing to see hear run along like a good chap won't you

tsax 13y ago

^^ left-wing degeneracy for all to see. popcorn

walshemj 13y ago
smiles you think I coming at this from a right-wing perspective lol.
- tomp 13y ago
  No I just think that your comment did in absolutely no way make this discussion better.
  - walshemj 13y ago
    In what way - I agree that responding with violence would not be a good first response at some point you do have to take a stand. Maybe the bus drivers from all the tech company could protest against this threat to their livelihood and stage a drive in and shutdown the city like the french farmers do by driving extremely slowly though the city.
- tsax 13y ago
  Sorry dude I was replying to the parent comment, not yours.
pacofvf 13y ago
What does left-wing have to do with this?, stupidity doesn't requires a political affiliation. Actually all governements in the world are left-wing by American standards.

hadem 13y ago

I've never felt the need for a down vote button for a comment on Hacker News until now. Yes, we should be ethically aware of the tools and products we build, but this is not the way to go about this! Harassing a man at his home like this is unnecessary and aggressive. Please stop the promotion of individual harassment.

goldenkey 13y ago
You claim that it's unnecessary and aggressive yet you do not discount its effectiveness. Therefore I'm going to discount your argument. Protest is worth it when its effective. And we're reading about it, so its done its job. Protest need not be cozy, clean, friendly, or Batemanish.
- hadem 13y ago
  I never claim effectiveness. Reading an article about a protest and a protest causing actual change are two very different things. I don't see what job was done.
mgunes 13y ago
When people block Google busses, and break one window of one bus, it's inappropriate violence on par with barbarism [1]. When people peacefully protest a Google employee and try to raise awareness in his neighborhood of his activities that they disagree with, it's individual harassment. Isn't that just lovely? Hacker News: privileged technologists setting the standards for techno-skeptical protest. Tell us what the proper way to go about it (outside the established means of the sham that is representative parliamentary democracy, of course) is, then. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6951468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6951468
- FireBeyond 13y ago
  "We intend to prevent you and your family from leaving your home" - by what means do these protestors feel acceptable? Verbal? Staring intimidatingly? Pushing his wife back as she crosses the property line? Punching his child? Drawing guns? When you explicitly state, and act, with the intention to prevent people from leaving their own home, effectively placing them in a state of house arrest, then sorry, your protest is no longer any more peaceful than the force implied by that house arrest. Hiding behind "raising awareness in the neighborhood" is a disingenuous sham that exposes a duplicity. What relevance has "representative parliamentary democracy" to your argument other than to make you feel martyred? Remember, you are actively threatening a family that you will not let them leave their home, there is a distinct, and real, fear of how far you will go to do so. For all your "blocking busses, and breaking one window" (carefully emphasized to minimize), there's the Seattle WTO protests and everything in between, and a distinct set of people who -will- resort to violence that constitutes a non-zero threat to this man and his family's well being that you wave away as nothing. At least have the courage of your convictions and stop pretending it's just some people "raising awareness".

matthewmacleod 13y ago

Who says they're not? I'm fairly sure that the correct approach to effecting political and ethical change is not harassing employees of tech firms in this way.

kevinchen 13y ago

No, we don't need more of these pseudo-news articles. Who the hell keeps posting them to HN?