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>"proved wrong by Apple's Xcode? " As far as I know, Xcode is not an compiler, it's an IDE that uses LLVM/Clang underneath as primary option but also gcc if it

>"proved wrong by Apple's Xcode? " As far as I know, Xcode is not an compiler, it's an IDE that uses LLVM/Clang underneath as primary option but also gcc if it is your choice. In the same way, Visual Studio uses cl.exe underneath but it can be hooked up with Clang too.

jordigh 13y ago
I don't think it's your choice what you hook underneath Xcode. I think it's Apple's choice. Since Xcode is non-free, you can't modify it to use something else will-nilly. All of the fancy static analysis that Xcode does is completely tied to clang, for example. Its debugger front-end is tied to lldb's idiosyncratic interface. It's not something that you can just easily replace with non-Apple compilers.
- lucian1900 13y ago
  Those are merely features of the IDE. The compiler used for actual building is configurable per project.
- pmelendez 13y ago
  >"Its debugger front-end is tied to lldb's idiosyncratic interface. It's not something that you can just easily replace with non-Apple compilers." What I going to say might not be true any more, since the last time I worked on Xcode was roughly two years ago. But by then I worked as a mobile game developer and at the studio we happily compiled in both GCC and LLVM. Actually we preferred to use gcc and gdb since LLVM debugger was very buggy at that time. This is how you could install gcc to work with XCode 4.3 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9353444/how-to-use-install-gcc-on-mac-os-x-10-8-xcode-4-4 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9353444/how-to-use-instal... And I wouldn't call LLVM/Clang an Apple's compiler, since it is contributed by people from Google too.
  - jordigh 13y ago
    > And I wouldn't call LLVM/Clang an Apple's compiler, since it is contributed by people from Google too. It's about as much of an Apple compiler as gcc is an FSF compiler.
- kps 13y ago
  All of the fancy static analysis that Xcode does is completely tied to clang, for example. Xcode doesn't do static analysis; Clang/LLVM does, and it's perfectly possible to do it from the command line, or embed it in other tools. (This is an example of the difference between LLVM's modular library architecture and GCC plugins — LLVM doesn't insist on being ‘on top’.)
  - jordigh 13y ago
    So it is easily replaceable? You could easily tell xcode to use gcc if gcc supported the same kind of static analysis? How would you do this?
    - kps 13y ago
      I don't work for Apple and have never seen Xcode source, but my guess (based on what I would do) would be that Xcode invokes Clang/LLVM as libraries rather than a standalone binary, in order to keep persistent state. In principle GCC could present such an interface, but in practice FSF policies prevent it. The point is that the static analysis can be used directly or by other tools (there is a web interface, for instance); it is not restricted to Xcode.
      - jordigh 13y ago
        So... it's not apparently possible without modifying the source code. So like I said originally, what Xcode is using for static analysis is apparently Apple's choice, not yours nor mine.
        kps 13y ago
        Yes; what's the point? Nobody's making you use Xcode (I don't), and nobody's stopping you using the Clang/LLVM features like static analysis outside of Xcode. If you want, you're free to call clang's static analysis from GNUstep's Xcode clone¹ (assuming GNUstep's license allows that; LLVM's certainly does), or any other IDE or editor. ¹https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep-xcode https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep-xcode
- mikeash 13y ago
  All true, but that makes Xcode a proprietary IDE, not a proprietary compiler. Apple doesn't make a proprietary compiler.

jordigh 13y ago

I don't think it's your choice what you hook underneath Xcode. I think it's Apple's choice. Since Xcode is non-free, you can't modify it to use something else will-nilly. All of the fancy static analysis that Xcode does is completely tied to clang, for example. Its debugger front-end is tied to lldb's idiosyncratic interface. It's not something that you can just easily replace with non-Apple compilers.

lucian1900 13y ago
Those are merely features of the IDE. The compiler used for actual building is configurable per project.
pmelendez 13y ago
>"Its debugger front-end is tied to lldb's idiosyncratic interface. It's not something that you can just easily replace with non-Apple compilers." What I going to say might not be true any more, since the last time I worked on Xcode was roughly two years ago. But by then I worked as a mobile game developer and at the studio we happily compiled in both GCC and LLVM. Actually we preferred to use gcc and gdb since LLVM debugger was very buggy at that time. This is how you could install gcc to work with XCode 4.3 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9353444/how-to-use-install-gcc-on-mac-os-x-10-8-xcode-4-4 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9353444/how-to-use-instal... And I wouldn't call LLVM/Clang an Apple's compiler, since it is contributed by people from Google too.
- jordigh 13y ago
  > And I wouldn't call LLVM/Clang an Apple's compiler, since it is contributed by people from Google too. It's about as much of an Apple compiler as gcc is an FSF compiler.
kps 13y ago
All of the fancy static analysis that Xcode does is completely tied to clang, for example. Xcode doesn't do static analysis; Clang/LLVM does, and it's perfectly possible to do it from the command line, or embed it in other tools. (This is an example of the difference between LLVM's modular library architecture and GCC plugins — LLVM doesn't insist on being ‘on top’.)
- jordigh 13y ago
  So it is easily replaceable? You could easily tell xcode to use gcc if gcc supported the same kind of static analysis? How would you do this?
  - kps 13y ago
    I don't work for Apple and have never seen Xcode source, but my guess (based on what I would do) would be that Xcode invokes Clang/LLVM as libraries rather than a standalone binary, in order to keep persistent state. In principle GCC could present such an interface, but in practice FSF policies prevent it. The point is that the static analysis can be used directly or by other tools (there is a web interface, for instance); it is not restricted to Xcode.
    - jordigh 13y ago
      So... it's not apparently possible without modifying the source code. So like I said originally, what Xcode is using for static analysis is apparently Apple's choice, not yours nor mine.
      - kps 13y ago
        Yes; what's the point? Nobody's making you use Xcode (I don't), and nobody's stopping you using the Clang/LLVM features like static analysis outside of Xcode. If you want, you're free to call clang's static analysis from GNUstep's Xcode clone¹ (assuming GNUstep's license allows that; LLVM's certainly does), or any other IDE or editor. ¹https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep-xcode https://github.com/gnustep/gnustep-xcode
mikeash 13y ago
All true, but that makes Xcode a proprietary IDE, not a proprietary compiler. Apple doesn't make a proprietary compiler.