4 ms·

This is not mostly because of the Stasi, which became a hot topic in western germany after the wall came down. e.g. in 1981, there was a census planned. It met

by Argorak 13y ago

This is not mostly because of the Stasi, which became a hot topic in western germany after the wall came down. e.g. in 1981, there was a census planned. It met so much opposition that it had to be delayed until 1987, especially because of data protection issues [1]. The main issue is that conflicts with the state have always been common in Germany, so there is a general distrust towards data collection. Also, privacy is a regular debate, keeping the whole topic warm. E.g. during the 90s, there was an attempt to allow acoustic surveillance on a large scale.[2] BTW: I had to accurately describe where I live. Apartments don't have numbers in germany, so I live "3rd floor, next to the stairs". Sorry for the german sources, I couldn't find good english ones. [1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksz%C3%A4hlung_in_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland_1987 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksz%C3%A4hlung_in_der_Bundes... [2] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fer_Lauschangriff http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fer_Lauschangriff

dictum 13y ago
Besides the Stasi, Germans may be concerned about a hypothetical tyrannical government deciding to persecute an specific group of people, snatch them from their homes and send them to concentration camps. (Yes, Godwin law. Yawn.)
- ErsatzVerkehr 13y ago
  Thus it is all the more surprising that in present-day Germany one must register one's residential address and religion with the local government.
  - brazzy 13y ago
    Note that religion is only relevant if it's one of those on whose behalf the government collects taxes - the two main and some smaller Christian churces, and the Jewish communities. If you religious affiliation is anything else, it will be stored as "other" or "no data".
sentenza 13y ago
It might be that the gravity of the second sentence in your comment is lost on the non-Germans here, so let me fill in some more detail: The protests and controversy regarding the census led to a legal dispute that reached the constitutional court, from whose ruling a new fundamental right called "informational self-determination"[1] is derived. This is unique to Germany. To understand why this happened, you have to remember that during the 80s, most Germans had personal experience of organized privacy invasions with extreme consequences. A "Blockwart"[2] was an NSDAP official _from your neighborhood_ with the right and duty to sniff out any "ideologically problematic" behaviour and report it to the Gestapo. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determinatio... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockleiter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockleiter @Argorak: I usually just post a google translate link of the German page. Better than nothing and so far nobody has complained.
- DanielleMolloy 13y ago
  Just want to emphasize this: Germany has a __fundamental right on "informational self-determination"__ [1]. From the wiki article: << On that occasion, the German Federal Constitutional Court ruled that: "[...] in the context of modern data processing, the protection of the individual against unlimited collection, storage, use and disclosure of his/her personal data is encompassed by the general personal rights of the [German Constitution]. This basic right warrants in this respect the capacity of the individual to determine in principle the disclosure and use of his/her personal data. Limitations to this informational self-determination are allowed only in case of overriding public interest." >> This is still quite interesting in several current debates. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determinatio...

by Argorak 13y ago

dictum 13y ago

Besides the Stasi, Germans may be concerned about a hypothetical tyrannical government deciding to persecute an specific group of people, snatch them from their homes and send them to concentration camps. (Yes, Godwin law. Yawn.)

ErsatzVerkehr 13y ago
Thus it is all the more surprising that in present-day Germany one must register one's residential address and religion with the local government.
- brazzy 13y ago
  Note that religion is only relevant if it's one of those on whose behalf the government collects taxes - the two main and some smaller Christian churces, and the Jewish communities. If you religious affiliation is anything else, it will be stored as "other" or "no data".

sentenza 13y ago

It might be that the gravity of the second sentence in your comment is lost on the non-Germans here, so let me fill in some more detail: The protests and controversy regarding the census led to a legal dispute that reached the constitutional court, from whose ruling a new fundamental right called "informational self-determination"[1] is derived. This is unique to Germany. To understand why this happened, you have to remember that during the 80s, most Germans had personal experience of organized privacy invasions with extreme consequences. A "Blockwart"[2] was an NSDAP official _from your neighborhood_ with the right and duty to sniff out any "ideologically problematic" behaviour and report it to the Gestapo. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determinatio... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockleiter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockleiter @Argorak: I usually just post a google translate link of the German page. Better than nothing and so far nobody has complained.

DanielleMolloy 13y ago
Just want to emphasize this: Germany has a __fundamental right on "informational self-determination"__ [1]. From the wiki article: << On that occasion, the German Federal Constitutional Court ruled that: "[...] in the context of modern data processing, the protection of the individual against unlimited collection, storage, use and disclosure of his/her personal data is encompassed by the general personal rights of the [German Constitution]. This basic right warrants in this respect the capacity of the individual to determine in principle the disclosure and use of his/her personal data. Limitations to this informational self-determination are allowed only in case of overriding public interest." >> This is still quite interesting in several current debates. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determinatio...