7 ms·

He puts way too much faith in karate to help his kids learn how to fight back. Karate does not teach you that. I was in karate for years as a kid and got a bla

by sofal 17y ago

He puts way too much faith in karate to help his kids learn how to fight back. Karate does not teach you that. I was in karate for years as a kid and got a black belt. I took karate for the same reasons he's putting his kids through it. I was tired of being picked on and I wanted to make myself more intimidating. It did not work. You do not learn how to fight in karate. You learn how to perform choreographed moves and routines (like katas and lots of shorter ones that we called 'techniques') and you kick and punch a lot of pads. Sparring is more like a game than a real fight, where you get points by making contact at the right places. Karate gives you good exercise (which is why it can be great for some people), but I did not get out of it what I wanted. I never learned how to fight simply because we never did any real fighting. I had a black belt, yet when it came down to it and someone was physically threatening me, the silly routines that worked against invisible attackers in karate did not work in real life. If you want your kids to learn how to fight and defend themselves, take them to a place where they actually have the kids fight each other. There are no shortcuts. The self-esteem boost that I desperately wanted from karate I was finally able to get in high school by becoming really good at percussion. People finally started respecting me for what I could do. Drumline was where I belonged.

Hexstream 17y ago
With respect, if you have a black belt yet can't put up a fight I'd seriously question the competence of your teacher, both in the quality of the training and the standards by which belts are awarded.
- sofal 17y ago
  The main teacher definitely knew how to fight (Mike Winkeljohn, look him up), but I'm definitely with you on questioning the type of training and the standards by which belts are rewarded. The problem is that a lot of karate places are not really in the business of teaching kids how to fight. It's a lot like Boy Scouts. The parents want to see progress, and so the belts are handed out to any kid who checks off all the requirements, which mostly consist of memorization and a minimal standard of physical fitness. It's a business, and doing that works better for the real customers: the parents. It certainly works for the OP even though his kids are obviously not learning how to fight ("His Karate dojo is wonderful, and he loves doing it. It's actually a very gentle dojo..."). A lot of kids love to do it anyway. I was just disappointed that my main purpose for studying karate was mismatched. I'll also grant that there is a small element of "getting out of it what you put into it" as well.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
scott_s 17y ago
Disciplines which place an emphasis on live sparring make an enormous difference. See boxing, Muay-Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and the emerging amalgamation of various sparring disciplines, Mixed Martial Arts.
- JesseAldridge 17y ago
  I had a friend who was in to that sort of thing. It seemed pretty dangerous. I was interested, but was concerned that being repeatedly hit in the head or put in a chokehold might cause brain damage. I recall this one incident where my friend had a guy in a headlock and the guy lost consciousness so he couldn't tap out. When he finally let him go the other dude had a seizure there on the spot. The same friend ended up permanently injuring his back by being slammed into the ground while attempting to perform a flying armbar on his opponent.
  - scott_s 17y ago
    Being repeatedly hit in the head at full force is not good. Most sparring is done at considerably less than full strength for that very reason. I think MMA fighters take less of a beating to the head than boxers because the fight is more varied, and seemingly paradoxically, since the gloves are smaller, if a solid punch gets through, you're more likely to get knocked out. Boxers, with the bigger gloves, take more a continual beating to the head. If you go out from a chokehold, it's either because your training partner is an asshole and didn't let go (unlikely in my experience), or you were stubborn and refused to tap (more likely). The seizing is typical when coming back from a blood choke - not good, of course, but it's what happens.
    - davecardwell 17y ago
      I remember hearing that the widespread use of boxing gloves actually increased injuries and fatalities as you could punch somebody in the head without having to worry about breaking bones in your hands. Wikipedia has some mention of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_glove#Impact_of_gloves_on_safety_and_injuries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_glove#Impact_of_gloves_o...
Retric 17y ago
There are many forms of karate and some of them have little to do with fighting. If you want to quickly learn to street fight take Kenpo. If you want to learn how to make your body as lethal as possible take a non sport from of Muay Thai. Note: I took American Kenpo for a few years and liked it, but I don't think it's really the best art for the average 12 year old.
- Dilpil 17y ago
  There are plenty of real karate schools, far more fake ones. The test is pretty simple- you ask the instructor if the students fight each other. If no, it is fake. Very hard to get good at something without ever doing it.
raquo 17y ago
> Karate does not teach you that That largely depends on your teacher. Some schools teach karate as a sport, others - as a discipline or self-defense. Different people see different ways of karate.
subwindow 17y ago
I joined the wrestling team my freshman year of high school, and it did wonders. All of your practice is against real people, so when you try to do a particular move, you really know how to perform it. The best part of it is that it is generally non-violent. The last real fight I had was the month before I started wrestling. Every other "fight" after that consisted of them throwing a punch and then me getting them into a headlock until they cooled off and backed down. No bloody noses. I'd consider it perfect for anyone seeking real, effective methods of self defense- especially in school, where even if you fight back and end up breaking a nose you can be punished.
- fizx 17y ago
  As a wrestler, it's great for diffusing simple high-school fights. I fondly remember someone throwing a sucker punch at me in the locker room, and I used his momentum and a Greco-Roman throw to put him hard head-first into the ground. That said, in real life, wrestling sucks for fights, because you never know when the other guy has a knife. Weapons change everything. Run away.
ananthrk 17y ago
"Nobody in the streets knows that you are a black belt" - Bruce Lee

by sofal 17y ago

Hexstream 17y ago

With respect, if you have a black belt yet can't put up a fight I'd seriously question the competence of your teacher, both in the quality of the training and the standards by which belts are awarded.

sofal 17y ago
The main teacher definitely knew how to fight (Mike Winkeljohn, look him up), but I'm definitely with you on questioning the type of training and the standards by which belts are rewarded. The problem is that a lot of karate places are not really in the business of teaching kids how to fight. It's a lot like Boy Scouts. The parents want to see progress, and so the belts are handed out to any kid who checks off all the requirements, which mostly consist of memorization and a minimal standard of physical fitness. It's a business, and doing that works better for the real customers: the parents. It certainly works for the OP even though his kids are obviously not learning how to fight ("His Karate dojo is wonderful, and he loves doing it. It's actually a very gentle dojo..."). A lot of kids love to do it anyway. I was just disappointed that my main purpose for studying karate was mismatched. I'll also grant that there is a small element of "getting out of it what you put into it" as well.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]

scott_s 17y ago

Disciplines which place an emphasis on live sparring make an enormous difference. See boxing, Muay-Thai, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and the emerging amalgamation of various sparring disciplines, Mixed Martial Arts.

JesseAldridge 17y ago
I had a friend who was in to that sort of thing. It seemed pretty dangerous. I was interested, but was concerned that being repeatedly hit in the head or put in a chokehold might cause brain damage. I recall this one incident where my friend had a guy in a headlock and the guy lost consciousness so he couldn't tap out. When he finally let him go the other dude had a seizure there on the spot. The same friend ended up permanently injuring his back by being slammed into the ground while attempting to perform a flying armbar on his opponent.
- scott_s 17y ago
  Being repeatedly hit in the head at full force is not good. Most sparring is done at considerably less than full strength for that very reason. I think MMA fighters take less of a beating to the head than boxers because the fight is more varied, and seemingly paradoxically, since the gloves are smaller, if a solid punch gets through, you're more likely to get knocked out. Boxers, with the bigger gloves, take more a continual beating to the head. If you go out from a chokehold, it's either because your training partner is an asshole and didn't let go (unlikely in my experience), or you were stubborn and refused to tap (more likely). The seizing is typical when coming back from a blood choke - not good, of course, but it's what happens.
  - davecardwell 17y ago
    I remember hearing that the widespread use of boxing gloves actually increased injuries and fatalities as you could punch somebody in the head without having to worry about breaking bones in your hands. Wikipedia has some mention of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_glove#Impact_of_gloves_on_safety_and_injuries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing_glove#Impact_of_gloves_o...

Retric 17y ago

There are many forms of karate and some of them have little to do with fighting. If you want to quickly learn to street fight take Kenpo. If you want to learn how to make your body as lethal as possible take a non sport from of Muay Thai. Note: I took American Kenpo for a few years and liked it, but I don't think it's really the best art for the average 12 year old.

Dilpil 17y ago
There are plenty of real karate schools, far more fake ones. The test is pretty simple- you ask the instructor if the students fight each other. If no, it is fake. Very hard to get good at something without ever doing it.

raquo 17y ago

> Karate does not teach you that That largely depends on your teacher. Some schools teach karate as a sport, others - as a discipline or self-defense. Different people see different ways of karate.

subwindow 17y ago

I joined the wrestling team my freshman year of high school, and it did wonders. All of your practice is against real people, so when you try to do a particular move, you really know how to perform it. The best part of it is that it is generally non-violent. The last real fight I had was the month before I started wrestling. Every other "fight" after that consisted of them throwing a punch and then me getting them into a headlock until they cooled off and backed down. No bloody noses. I'd consider it perfect for anyone seeking real, effective methods of self defense- especially in school, where even if you fight back and end up breaking a nose you can be punished.

fizx 17y ago
As a wrestler, it's great for diffusing simple high-school fights. I fondly remember someone throwing a sucker punch at me in the locker room, and I used his momentum and a Greco-Roman throw to put him hard head-first into the ground. That said, in real life, wrestling sucks for fights, because you never know when the other guy has a knife. Weapons change everything. Run away.

ananthrk 17y ago

"Nobody in the streets knows that you are a black belt" - Bruce Lee