19 ms·

I'm probably a 1%-er, given how much my wife and I earn. I don't give to charity. Not because I don't believe I should, but I still don't feel like I'm at the

by steven2012 13y ago

I'm probably a 1%-er, given how much my wife and I earn. I don't give to charity. Not because I don't believe I should, but I still don't feel like I'm at the stage where we can afford to, given how expensive life in the Bay Area is. We live well within our means (2 cheap cars, no cable tv, eat-in most days of the week, ...), but the idea of having to pay for a ridiculous mortgage to live in a safe area with good schools, pay for a nanny to take care of our kids because we work so many hours, having to save for our retirement, saving for our kids' educations scares the hell out of me, and puts a freeze on any extraneous spending of money. I feel like we are one dot-com-bust away from total financial disaster. Once we have a more stable financial picture in the next 10 years or so, I definitely would like to donate my money, and maybe more importantly, my time, but until then, I think I will abstain from donating.

joejohnson 13y ago
Is your combined family income over 445k? That's how much the 1% make (2013). http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/17/does-your-family-make-over-232000-congrats-youre-in-the-top-5-percent/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/17/d...
- ronaldx 13y ago
  $100,000 (net) household income would get you comfortably into the World 1%: http://www.givingwhatwecan.org/why-give/how-rich-am-i http://www.givingwhatwecan.org/why-give/how-rich-am-i
- dannypgh 13y ago
  Analyzing income distribution is a lot less telling to the kind of persistent inequalities that exist in our society than wealth distribution. See http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-top-1-by-wealth-not-income/ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-t... -- to be in the top 1% of wealth in the US you need to be worth around $8.4 million.
- steven2012 13y ago
  Not to get into specifics, but like I said, I'm probably a 1%-er.
hornytoad 13y ago
> Once we have a more stable financial picture in the next 10 years or so Dream on. You'll never donate. How pathetic. Who do you expect is able to give except Gates and Soros?
tomp 13y ago
Have you considered moving to Europe? Better schools (AFAIK), mostly, better work-life balance, safer (less guns), better social security (e.g. pension).
- hk__2 13y ago
  I don’t think it solves the problem. From what I’ve seen so far, for an engineer job paid $100k/year in the US, you’ll get only €40k/year in France (~$50k/year), and some things are more expensive.
- hornytoad 13y ago
  How about working to change America? In theory, it is a democracy, so if what you say is true, people should be able to change it. 50 million on food stamps in "the richest country", while "poorer" countries fare much better - you should have some voters here. The only problem - you need gazillions to make it to the TV screens so that you end up being electable. There goes your democracy.
hawkharris 13y ago
I can relate to your point about income being relative to circumstances. I'm lucky to have a very good salary, at least for a young guy in one of his first jobs, who doesn't have many financial obligations. Until about a month ago, I felt very comfortable with my finances and, on paper, would definitely be able to donate to nonprofits. But I recently had a medical emergency that cost thousands (even with good insurance). Things will work out fine, but the situation has completely reshaped my financial situation and ability to give.
- steven2012 13y ago
  Yes, I lived through the dot-com bust where I honestly thought my livelihood was disappearing. It was eye-opening and probably the basis of my beliefs on requiring absolute financial stability. Friends of mine were out of work for 2 years, and had to move several times until they found a permanent work in Texas and SoCal. As well, the 2009 financial crisis had me scared as well, but I was a lot more financially prepared for that. Now that we have kids, the equation changed once again, and my requirements for financial stability have changed even further.
leoh 13y ago
Don't you have some monthly discretionary income? When I was making about $35/hour (and living in the Bay Area), I sometimes donated half of each of my paycheck. To be frank, sometimes I'm embarrassed by how much I make. Not that I'm not exceptionally good at what I do - I am good at what I do - I just don't know why I get paid so much while others around the world have to suffer. It is out duty, while we are alive, to reduce our own suffering and the suffering of others. And sometimes, the two are not mutually exclusive.
claar 13y ago
"I still don't feel like I'm at the stage where we can afford to" -- just... wow. It sounds you may be lacking perspective. I highly recommend visiting the poorest places of your own city, much less the poorer countries of the world. You might be surprised at the effect it will have on you; I know it does me every time.
- steven2012 13y ago
  I don't feel I lack perspective. I'm well aware of how blessed we are relative to other people in the world or even in my immediate area. I just feel like my time to donate is later, when I'm financially more comfortable, rather than now. Is there a reason why you feel I should be donating now rather than later?
  - caseydurfee 13y ago
    My reason would be that donating makes you feel richer. It's not about the amount but making a habit of feeling like you have at least some resources to help other people. You say you don't donate because you don't feel rich, but maybe you don't feel rich precisely because you don't donate. If you don't feel rich, you're probably doing all kinds of other things to sabotage your financial success that are more than canceling out the cost of a little charity here and there.
elwell 13y ago
This doesn't seem logical to me, sorry.
mdturnerphys 13y ago
Sounds like you're giving yourself a choice between donating nothing and donating a substantial amount. Why not donate a little here and there? I'm just a poor grad student, but my wife and I fast for two meals each month and donate what we would have spent on food for those meals (usually estimated as a couple times more than we would actually spend on the food) to charity. Is this a huge amount of money? Not from us individually, but if everyone did this it would be a considerable amount (I get $30 billion per year for the U.S. alone). Just because you can't make a huge difference individually doesn't mean you can't be part of something meaningful.
- steven2012 13y ago
  I didn't think about it that way, but now that you sum it up, I think this is relatively accurate. Like I said, I'm not against donating money whatsoever, and I definitely have plans to donate in the future. Besides donating more of my income later on, some of my more ambitious plans are to take on foster children, and give them access to the good schools in my area once my children have grown a bit older. Is there a particular reason why people feel that I should be donating immediately, given I have pretty specific donation plans in the future?
  - nether 13y ago
    > Is there a particular reason why people feel that I should be donating immediately, given I have pretty specific donation plans in the future? Yeah. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
  - hallmark 13y ago
    To build habits? My bank has free bill pay, so my wife and I have an automatic check sent out every month to a local all-volunteer charity that does very worthwhile work. We never see that money and we budget around the income we have left over. Whenever I peek at my bank statements and see those debits, I'm reminded of what we're doing. Even a small amount, say $50/month, is a great start. This also forces you to find a worthwhile cause now, and to attach yourself to and actively re-evaluate that cause on an ongoing basis. It becomes a part of your life instead of your future. All that said, thanks for the honest discussion. This stuff is important.
ernestipark 13y ago
I know you're going to get (and have already gotten) flak for your response, but I appreciate your honesty. It definitely sounds like you're trying to be responsible financially and cost of living is extremely high in the Bay Area for sure (as I've experienced myself). Like others have mentioned though, it's very easy to get in the mindset of "When I have $x, I'll be able to give". Financial security and piece of mind for your family is obviously very important, but generally, getting to a point where you can give is more about a mindset than actual numbers. If you don't feel you have enough now to give, it's unlikely like you ever will. Not everyone can have Bill Gates money :). I recently was in a class that taught economic discipleship at my church that worked on transforming both mind and heart to be responsible financially. This means not only giving more, but also being responsible with budgeting (accountability for own finances), giving responsibly (to responsible charities), and spending happily (being grateful for one's own wealth). One "homework" we did was to start by cutting some of the excess in our life to save money. These were very simple things like cutting out a latte a week, eating in more, driving less, etc. The actual amount itself may not have been significant to start, but it keeps you very conscientious of where money leaks, and how that money could benefit others. We then researched charities to find ones doing the most impactful work and gave some of that money we saved. We also gave a larger contribution over a longer term by designating different percentages of our salaries/bonuses as not our own, but for others. These little steps help make giving and being aware of the need elsewhere in the world a daily part of your life rather than something that seems like a distant dream or something you do before the end of the tax year. I am by no means some giving expert, but I've been working on these very things myself with my family and hope it can help make a dent on the poverty and inequities in the world. Gates's letter gives us great hope and motivation that our efforts today and not tomorrow can and will have enormous implications for the well-being of the world's population.
aaron695 13y ago
> pay for a nanny Are you serious, or are you joking? You are basically a 1% and you can't even give anything to charity. It's your choice like all 1% but a least own the fact you are selfish.

joejohnson 13y ago

Is your combined family income over 445k? That's how much the 1% make (2013). http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/17/does-your-family-make-over-232000-congrats-youre-in-the-top-5-percent/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/17/d...

ronaldx 13y ago
$100,000 (net) household income would get you comfortably into the World 1%: http://www.givingwhatwecan.org/why-give/how-rich-am-i http://www.givingwhatwecan.org/why-give/how-rich-am-i
dannypgh 13y ago
Analyzing income distribution is a lot less telling to the kind of persistent inequalities that exist in our society than wealth distribution. See http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-top-1-by-wealth-not-income/ http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/measuring-the-t... -- to be in the top 1% of wealth in the US you need to be worth around $8.4 million.
steven2012 13y ago
Not to get into specifics, but like I said, I'm probably a 1%-er.

hornytoad 13y ago

> Once we have a more stable financial picture in the next 10 years or so Dream on. You'll never donate. How pathetic. Who do you expect is able to give except Gates and Soros?

tomp 13y ago

Have you considered moving to Europe? Better schools (AFAIK), mostly, better work-life balance, safer (less guns), better social security (e.g. pension).

hk__2 13y ago
I don’t think it solves the problem. From what I’ve seen so far, for an engineer job paid $100k/year in the US, you’ll get only €40k/year in France (~$50k/year), and some things are more expensive.
hornytoad 13y ago
How about working to change America? In theory, it is a democracy, so if what you say is true, people should be able to change it. 50 million on food stamps in "the richest country", while "poorer" countries fare much better - you should have some voters here. The only problem - you need gazillions to make it to the TV screens so that you end up being electable. There goes your democracy.

hawkharris 13y ago

I can relate to your point about income being relative to circumstances. I'm lucky to have a very good salary, at least for a young guy in one of his first jobs, who doesn't have many financial obligations. Until about a month ago, I felt very comfortable with my finances and, on paper, would definitely be able to donate to nonprofits. But I recently had a medical emergency that cost thousands (even with good insurance). Things will work out fine, but the situation has completely reshaped my financial situation and ability to give.

steven2012 13y ago
Yes, I lived through the dot-com bust where I honestly thought my livelihood was disappearing. It was eye-opening and probably the basis of my beliefs on requiring absolute financial stability. Friends of mine were out of work for 2 years, and had to move several times until they found a permanent work in Texas and SoCal. As well, the 2009 financial crisis had me scared as well, but I was a lot more financially prepared for that. Now that we have kids, the equation changed once again, and my requirements for financial stability have changed even further.

leoh 13y ago

Don't you have some monthly discretionary income? When I was making about $35/hour (and living in the Bay Area), I sometimes donated half of each of my paycheck. To be frank, sometimes I'm embarrassed by how much I make. Not that I'm not exceptionally good at what I do - I am good at what I do - I just don't know why I get paid so much while others around the world have to suffer. It is out duty, while we are alive, to reduce our own suffering and the suffering of others. And sometimes, the two are not mutually exclusive.

claar 13y ago

"I still don't feel like I'm at the stage where we can afford to" -- just... wow. It sounds you may be lacking perspective. I highly recommend visiting the poorest places of your own city, much less the poorer countries of the world. You might be surprised at the effect it will have on you; I know it does me every time.

steven2012 13y ago
I don't feel I lack perspective. I'm well aware of how blessed we are relative to other people in the world or even in my immediate area. I just feel like my time to donate is later, when I'm financially more comfortable, rather than now. Is there a reason why you feel I should be donating now rather than later?
- caseydurfee 13y ago
  My reason would be that donating makes you feel richer. It's not about the amount but making a habit of feeling like you have at least some resources to help other people. You say you don't donate because you don't feel rich, but maybe you don't feel rich precisely because you don't donate. If you don't feel rich, you're probably doing all kinds of other things to sabotage your financial success that are more than canceling out the cost of a little charity here and there.

elwell 13y ago

This doesn't seem logical to me, sorry.

mdturnerphys 13y ago

Sounds like you're giving yourself a choice between donating nothing and donating a substantial amount. Why not donate a little here and there? I'm just a poor grad student, but my wife and I fast for two meals each month and donate what we would have spent on food for those meals (usually estimated as a couple times more than we would actually spend on the food) to charity. Is this a huge amount of money? Not from us individually, but if everyone did this it would be a considerable amount (I get $30 billion per year for the U.S. alone). Just because you can't make a huge difference individually doesn't mean you can't be part of something meaningful.

steven2012 13y ago
I didn't think about it that way, but now that you sum it up, I think this is relatively accurate. Like I said, I'm not against donating money whatsoever, and I definitely have plans to donate in the future. Besides donating more of my income later on, some of my more ambitious plans are to take on foster children, and give them access to the good schools in my area once my children have grown a bit older. Is there a particular reason why people feel that I should be donating immediately, given I have pretty specific donation plans in the future?
- nether 13y ago
  > Is there a particular reason why people feel that I should be donating immediately, given I have pretty specific donation plans in the future? Yeah. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
- hallmark 13y ago
  To build habits? My bank has free bill pay, so my wife and I have an automatic check sent out every month to a local all-volunteer charity that does very worthwhile work. We never see that money and we budget around the income we have left over. Whenever I peek at my bank statements and see those debits, I'm reminded of what we're doing. Even a small amount, say $50/month, is a great start. This also forces you to find a worthwhile cause now, and to attach yourself to and actively re-evaluate that cause on an ongoing basis. It becomes a part of your life instead of your future. All that said, thanks for the honest discussion. This stuff is important.

ernestipark 13y ago

I know you're going to get (and have already gotten) flak for your response, but I appreciate your honesty. It definitely sounds like you're trying to be responsible financially and cost of living is extremely high in the Bay Area for sure (as I've experienced myself). Like others have mentioned though, it's very easy to get in the mindset of "When I have $x, I'll be able to give". Financial security and piece of mind for your family is obviously very important, but generally, getting to a point where you can give is more about a mindset than actual numbers. If you don't feel you have enough now to give, it's unlikely like you ever will. Not everyone can have Bill Gates money :). I recently was in a class that taught economic discipleship at my church that worked on transforming both mind and heart to be responsible financially. This means not only giving more, but also being responsible with budgeting (accountability for own finances), giving responsibly (to responsible charities), and spending happily (being grateful for one's own wealth). One "homework" we did was to start by cutting some of the excess in our life to save money. These were very simple things like cutting out a latte a week, eating in more, driving less, etc. The actual amount itself may not have been significant to start, but it keeps you very conscientious of where money leaks, and how that money could benefit others. We then researched charities to find ones doing the most impactful work and gave some of that money we saved. We also gave a larger contribution over a longer term by designating different percentages of our salaries/bonuses as not our own, but for others. These little steps help make giving and being aware of the need elsewhere in the world a daily part of your life rather than something that seems like a distant dream or something you do before the end of the tax year. I am by no means some giving expert, but I've been working on these very things myself with my family and hope it can help make a dent on the poverty and inequities in the world. Gates's letter gives us great hope and motivation that our efforts today and not tomorrow can and will have enormous implications for the well-being of the world's population.

aaron695 13y ago

> pay for a nanny Are you serious, or are you joking? You are basically a 1% and you can't even give anything to charity. It's your choice like all 1% but a least own the fact you are selfish.