3 ms·

Don't you think, that we already have criminalization of thoughts and corruption of language? No? Then think again. Doubleplus think.

MartinCron 13y ago
I'm trying to doubleplusthink on this one, but I really can't see any evidence of criminalization of thoughts. I have some pretty deplorable thoughts myself, and I seem to be getting away with it.
- PythonicAlpha 13y ago
  You should just watch with an open mind what is going on in the world. There might be no mass-thought-reader yet, so you get through with your deplorable thoughts, but just take as a small example the era of McCarthy -- those that openly expressed possible communistic thoughts where persecuted. Or (to name a more current example) just say at the NY airport that the security measures are bullshit! ... just as doublethought-enhancer.
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    The McCarthy era was both a long time ago and is almost universally regarded as a political and ideological failure. Are you saying that our society is infested with crypto-McCarthyists?
    - PythonicAlpha 13y ago
      I don't answer to posts that are not earnest. (I could answer to the first sentence alone, but it does not make sense to me to answer in the context of the second)
- Jare 13y ago
  > I have some pretty deplorable thoughts myself, and I seem to be getting away with it Only because you don't have 24/7 surveillance on you. Yet.
- mhurron 13y ago
  http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/01/07/20-years-for-loli-manga-%E2%80%9Cvictims-don%E2%80%99t-have-to-exist%E2%80%9D/ http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/01/07/20-years-for-loli-m... "A federal appeals panel has upheld the 20 year sentence of a lolicon found to have received illustrations of underage sex by email, saying that “it is not a required that the minor depicted actually exists”, and so ruling art not to be universally protected free speech."
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    I was wondering if someone would bring that up. The prohibition of virtual child pornography is probably the closest thing to thought crime that we have. I think that using a particularly narrow example of restricted permissible expression isn't proof that society is getting closer to the totalitarian nightmare of 1984.
    - mhurron 13y ago
      Art, in part, put a guy in jail for 20 years, that is double the average of the crime of actual rape. I think that's going in a direction that we shouldn't go.
      - MartinCron 13y ago
        I agree that it's a direction we shouldn't go, but I don't see it as a new thing or a thing that's getting progressively worse.
- gumby 13y ago
  conviction for conspiracy to commit when no actually commission happened is an example (consider the FBI convicting someone of a terrorist plot when all other participants are FBI agents). Or, frankly, when a punishment for a crime is increased by its intent (e.g. race related or anti-homosexual) -- it's not only the crime that is punished but the thought behind it as well.
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    Those FBI stings are a pretty good example, though I would say that it's more textbook entrapment than thoughtcrime. It seems that they are selecting more for the ability to be manipulated over their ideological positions. As far as hate-crime goes, the notion behind increased punishment there is that the victims include an entire terrorized community, not just the direct victim. If I throw some trash on some guy's lawn, there's one victim (the guy). If I burn a cross on some guy's lawn, there are multiple victims (the other black families in the neighborhood). It's an important distinction.
    - gumby 13y ago
      Read up on the FBI "terrorism" plots most of them are beyond traditional entrapment and into enticement. For hate crime: yes, you've explained the justification for the designation. But it is thoughtcrime. You've merely said that it's legitimate.

MartinCron 13y ago

I'm trying to doubleplusthink on this one, but I really can't see any evidence of criminalization of thoughts. I have some pretty deplorable thoughts myself, and I seem to be getting away with it.

PythonicAlpha 13y ago
You should just watch with an open mind what is going on in the world. There might be no mass-thought-reader yet, so you get through with your deplorable thoughts, but just take as a small example the era of McCarthy -- those that openly expressed possible communistic thoughts where persecuted. Or (to name a more current example) just say at the NY airport that the security measures are bullshit! ... just as doublethought-enhancer.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  The McCarthy era was both a long time ago and is almost universally regarded as a political and ideological failure. Are you saying that our society is infested with crypto-McCarthyists?
  - PythonicAlpha 13y ago
    I don't answer to posts that are not earnest. (I could answer to the first sentence alone, but it does not make sense to me to answer in the context of the second)
Jare 13y ago
> I have some pretty deplorable thoughts myself, and I seem to be getting away with it Only because you don't have 24/7 surveillance on you. Yet.
mhurron 13y ago
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/01/07/20-years-for-loli-manga-%E2%80%9Cvictims-don%E2%80%99t-have-to-exist%E2%80%9D/ http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/01/07/20-years-for-loli-m... "A federal appeals panel has upheld the 20 year sentence of a lolicon found to have received illustrations of underage sex by email, saying that “it is not a required that the minor depicted actually exists”, and so ruling art not to be universally protected free speech."
- MartinCron 13y ago
  I was wondering if someone would bring that up. The prohibition of virtual child pornography is probably the closest thing to thought crime that we have. I think that using a particularly narrow example of restricted permissible expression isn't proof that society is getting closer to the totalitarian nightmare of 1984.
  - mhurron 13y ago
    Art, in part, put a guy in jail for 20 years, that is double the average of the crime of actual rape. I think that's going in a direction that we shouldn't go.
    - MartinCron 13y ago
      I agree that it's a direction we shouldn't go, but I don't see it as a new thing or a thing that's getting progressively worse.
gumby 13y ago
conviction for conspiracy to commit when no actually commission happened is an example (consider the FBI convicting someone of a terrorist plot when all other participants are FBI agents). Or, frankly, when a punishment for a crime is increased by its intent (e.g. race related or anti-homosexual) -- it's not only the crime that is punished but the thought behind it as well.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  Those FBI stings are a pretty good example, though I would say that it's more textbook entrapment than thoughtcrime. It seems that they are selecting more for the ability to be manipulated over their ideological positions. As far as hate-crime goes, the notion behind increased punishment there is that the victims include an entire terrorized community, not just the direct victim. If I throw some trash on some guy's lawn, there's one victim (the guy). If I burn a cross on some guy's lawn, there are multiple victims (the other black families in the neighborhood). It's an important distinction.
  - gumby 13y ago
    Read up on the FBI "terrorism" plots most of them are beyond traditional entrapment and into enticement. For hate crime: yes, you've explained the justification for the designation. But it is thoughtcrime. You've merely said that it's legitimate.