5 ms·

I would argue the reverse. Talking to the cops in a nice way, letting them search your car because you have "nothing to hide" etc etc may help you in the short

I would argue the reverse. Talking to the cops in a nice way, letting them search your car because you have "nothing to hide" etc etc may help you in the short term, but it further erodes all of our rights in the long term, and makes us all less safe and more subject to the whims of a police-industrial complex that it out of control.

repsilat 13y ago
I love this objection because it uses my own argument against me. I think any argument from here goes away from moral principles and towards politics. My personal view is that rights are most greatly abridged in crises, and that the voluntary cooperation is less likely to beget oppression than is the unrest and crime prevented by cooperation. Moreover, I think a culture of forcibly requiring information is more likely to arise in a culture of reticence. You're right that it's a difficult line to walk, though -- defending a cultural value of openness and strong rights to silence and privacy is a subtle point.
- snsr 13y ago
  > defending a cultural value of openness 'Openness' amongst a community or society and openness with regard to the government are not one in the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_...
  - repsilat 13y ago
    I think the more important distinction to make is between compelled testimony and voluntary testimony. I think we should encourage people to come forward of their own free will, both by making it safer to do so and by educating them on the benefits to society. In a sense I think this because I have faith in my local police, and see them as a part of the community, not as an "other." Same as you, though, I don't believe believe in expanding their powers to compel people to come forward, because that obviously has scary negative consequences.
    - 3825 13y ago
      Will you still have faith in your local police and see them as a part of your community after the conduct a triple anal probe on you or your children and hand you with the invoice for the procedure? While I generally support unions, the police fraternity mindset is troubling. There are no good cops as long as the blue code of silence is the de facto mode of operation.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

repsilat 13y ago

I love this objection because it uses my own argument against me. I think any argument from here goes away from moral principles and towards politics. My personal view is that rights are most greatly abridged in crises, and that the voluntary cooperation is less likely to beget oppression than is the unrest and crime prevented by cooperation. Moreover, I think a culture of forcibly requiring information is more likely to arise in a culture of reticence. You're right that it's a difficult line to walk, though -- defending a cultural value of openness and strong rights to silence and privacy is a subtle point.

snsr 13y ago
> defending a cultural value of openness 'Openness' amongst a community or society and openness with regard to the government are not one in the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_...
- repsilat 13y ago
  I think the more important distinction to make is between compelled testimony and voluntary testimony. I think we should encourage people to come forward of their own free will, both by making it safer to do so and by educating them on the benefits to society. In a sense I think this because I have faith in my local police, and see them as a part of the community, not as an "other." Same as you, though, I don't believe believe in expanding their powers to compel people to come forward, because that obviously has scary negative consequences.
  - 3825 13y ago
    Will you still have faith in your local police and see them as a part of your community after the conduct a triple anal probe on you or your children and hand you with the invoice for the procedure? While I generally support unions, the police fraternity mindset is troubling. There are no good cops as long as the blue code of silence is the de facto mode of operation.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]