12 ms·

It's no choice at all. Don't talk. Look, I understand these guys have a job to do, and they have a certain toolset they're allowed to use to do it. I don't beg

It's no choice at all. Don't talk. Look, I understand these guys have a job to do, and they have a certain toolset they're allowed to use to do it. I don't begrudge them that. But damned if I'm going to let a sense of civic duty lead to my self-incrimination. A friend of mine spent some time at the Public Defenders office. The number of times she saw people send themselves up for long stretches in prison, under circumstances in which the authorities would /never/ have gotten a conviction otherwise, led her to give me the same advice you see every single lawyer on television offer their clients: don't say anything!

mpalmer 13y ago
In support of jasonwocky's comment - this is always worth a watch if you haven't seen it: http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc
- midas007 13y ago
  Yup. There's a great misconception by naive people that believe candor begets innocence. Unfortunately, an adversarial legal system instead looks at volunteered information as ammunition.
- gavinpc 13y ago
  Please, god, hackers, watch that video. Without saying too much here, let's just say I wish I'd seen this video in, say, 2002 (well before it was made).
- grifpete 13y ago
  Absolutely right: It is witty and extremely compelling viewing. EVERY citizen should watch it.
- neltnerb 13y ago
  Nice video. My opinion -- people who are smart often think that they know more than police. They may, possibly, but they definitely don't have the training necessary to predict how their statements (even if innocent) can be twisted to imply whatever the prosecutor wants.
- s_husso 13y ago
  As an non-US citizen/resident this is pretty fasinating insight to the US justice system! One thing comes to mind though. If I'm to travel to US and enter US soil, am I covered by the Bill of Rights? Ofc I haven't had any problems while visiting US but just curious how these things pan out for non-citizen/resident.
  - sounds 13y ago
    The Bill of Rights ostensibly covers anyone under US jurisdiction, even a non-US citizen. (The Bill of Rights is a specific set of rights enumerated to _limit_ the government, it is _not_ an enumeration of rights granted to a person. The Declaration of Independence and US Constitution are powers extended from the people to the government at the people's pleasure.) Having said that, I said "ostensibly." I mean that US Code and jurisprudence are convoluted. Immigrants or tourists are especially at risk: deportation, or worse, a one way ticket to Guatanamo. This is absolutely in violation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, but the US Government is currently trying to lie and deny and bluff its way around those founding documents. In my opinion, the attack on immigrants/tourists/foreigners (hi, NSA) is an attempt to gain prima facie precedents that will then be extended to regular citizens. Case in point: wiretaps, drones, and US citizens held indefinitely without a trial. I am a US Citizen but I defend your rights because it's only a matter of time before it will come back to me.
    - lazyant 13y ago
      didn't Scalia say regarding torture that the man wasn't legally a "person" and no rights applied or something like that?
gst 13y ago
But the sample of people that your friend saw is biased. She only saw the people who talked to the police and ended up in prison, but doesn't know about the people who showed to the police that they are innocent, and who then left, without the interaction being recorded anywhere. The same is true for lawyers who tell you to never talk to the police. They only see the cases that get to a court, and don't see the cases that never make it that far. I'm not saying that you should always talk to the police, but it very much depends on the situation. In that particular case I'd have probably talked with them and insisted that they look at the actual data on the glass, if the alternative is to spend the night in jail, waiting for someone to look at the evidence.
- fjhqjv 13y ago
  It's not that lawyers think you should never talk to police, it's that you should wait until you have legal counsel to do so.
- x0054 13y ago
  This is a terrible advice! NEVER talk to the police. I have seen a lot of innocent people talk themselves into an arrest. Sure, none of them got convicted, but they spent a lot of time in the court system and thousands of dollars on attorney fees. This is my professional advise, and if you need more proof, here is a Detective giving the same advice on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1t3vtr0kxk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1t3vtr0kxk
  - x0054 13y ago
    Repsilat, you are mistaken. There is never any benefit to talking to the police (as a suspect). If you are a witness to the crime, and want to do your civic duty, be my guest. But as a suspect the cops are not at all interested in what you have to say. They are not interested in the truth, they are interested in probable cause to arrest you. All they are looking for is probable cause. In their mind it's arrest first, find out the truth later. Why do you think it took them that long to connect a laptop to the Google Glass and see if any video was recorded. They probably suspected it was empty. They tried to brake the guy first, to find any reason to arrest him, so they can go to his house and search all of his computers. They asked him a ton of questions, and I can guarantee you, they were looking for any unrelated excuse to arrest him.
midas007 13y ago
Never talk to the cops. Period. You can't help yourself by proving you have "nothing to hide." The only word emanating from your vocal cords should be "lawyer."
- baddox 13y ago
  That is good legal advice. Not necessarily good advice for a person's well-being. Cops throw people in jail and let them die there, or even kill them directly, for less than this.
  - fjhqjv 13y ago
    Please cite references if you're suggesting that people in the U.S. are routinely killed or jailed for life without trial for requesting legal council.
    - busterarm 13y ago
      http://www.cato.org/raidmap http://www.cato.org/raidmap Here's one. Edit: Hell, it's not even a joke anymore that cops routinely kill the physically and mentally ill. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/ http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-ki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas http://raniakhalek.com/2013/10/08/georgia-police-kill-diabetic-black-man-after-family-calls-911-requesting-ambulance/ http://raniakhalek.com/2013/10/08/georgia-police-kill-diabet... http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/sick-elderly-black-man-was-shot-death http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/sick-elderly-black-ma... http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019235236_duffy23m.html http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019235236_duffy23m.h... http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-killed-harlem-man-mix-up-lawsuit-article-1.1542361 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-killed-ha... http://gothamist.com/2008/09/25/after_cop_tasers_him_naked_man_fall.php http://gothamist.com/2008/09/25/after_cop_tasers_him_naked_m... and even things like http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/mentally-ill-man-froze-to-death-days-after-police-were-called-b99179254z1-239175731.html http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/mentally-ill-man-froz...

mpalmer 13y ago

In support of jasonwocky's comment - this is always worth a watch if you haven't seen it: http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc

midas007 13y ago
Yup. There's a great misconception by naive people that believe candor begets innocence. Unfortunately, an adversarial legal system instead looks at volunteered information as ammunition.
gavinpc 13y ago
Please, god, hackers, watch that video. Without saying too much here, let's just say I wish I'd seen this video in, say, 2002 (well before it was made).
grifpete 13y ago
Absolutely right: It is witty and extremely compelling viewing. EVERY citizen should watch it.
neltnerb 13y ago
Nice video. My opinion -- people who are smart often think that they know more than police. They may, possibly, but they definitely don't have the training necessary to predict how their statements (even if innocent) can be twisted to imply whatever the prosecutor wants.
s_husso 13y ago
As an non-US citizen/resident this is pretty fasinating insight to the US justice system! One thing comes to mind though. If I'm to travel to US and enter US soil, am I covered by the Bill of Rights? Ofc I haven't had any problems while visiting US but just curious how these things pan out for non-citizen/resident.
- sounds 13y ago
  The Bill of Rights ostensibly covers anyone under US jurisdiction, even a non-US citizen. (The Bill of Rights is a specific set of rights enumerated to _limit_ the government, it is _not_ an enumeration of rights granted to a person. The Declaration of Independence and US Constitution are powers extended from the people to the government at the people's pleasure.) Having said that, I said "ostensibly." I mean that US Code and jurisprudence are convoluted. Immigrants or tourists are especially at risk: deportation, or worse, a one way ticket to Guatanamo. This is absolutely in violation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, but the US Government is currently trying to lie and deny and bluff its way around those founding documents. In my opinion, the attack on immigrants/tourists/foreigners (hi, NSA) is an attempt to gain prima facie precedents that will then be extended to regular citizens. Case in point: wiretaps, drones, and US citizens held indefinitely without a trial. I am a US Citizen but I defend your rights because it's only a matter of time before it will come back to me.
  - lazyant 13y ago
    didn't Scalia say regarding torture that the man wasn't legally a "person" and no rights applied or something like that?

gst 13y ago

But the sample of people that your friend saw is biased. She only saw the people who talked to the police and ended up in prison, but doesn't know about the people who showed to the police that they are innocent, and who then left, without the interaction being recorded anywhere. The same is true for lawyers who tell you to never talk to the police. They only see the cases that get to a court, and don't see the cases that never make it that far. I'm not saying that you should always talk to the police, but it very much depends on the situation. In that particular case I'd have probably talked with them and insisted that they look at the actual data on the glass, if the alternative is to spend the night in jail, waiting for someone to look at the evidence.

fjhqjv 13y ago
It's not that lawyers think you should never talk to police, it's that you should wait until you have legal counsel to do so.
x0054 13y ago
This is a terrible advice! NEVER talk to the police. I have seen a lot of innocent people talk themselves into an arrest. Sure, none of them got convicted, but they spent a lot of time in the court system and thousands of dollars on attorney fees. This is my professional advise, and if you need more proof, here is a Detective giving the same advice on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1t3vtr0kxk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1t3vtr0kxk
- x0054 13y ago
  Repsilat, you are mistaken. There is never any benefit to talking to the police (as a suspect). If you are a witness to the crime, and want to do your civic duty, be my guest. But as a suspect the cops are not at all interested in what you have to say. They are not interested in the truth, they are interested in probable cause to arrest you. All they are looking for is probable cause. In their mind it's arrest first, find out the truth later. Why do you think it took them that long to connect a laptop to the Google Glass and see if any video was recorded. They probably suspected it was empty. They tried to brake the guy first, to find any reason to arrest him, so they can go to his house and search all of his computers. They asked him a ton of questions, and I can guarantee you, they were looking for any unrelated excuse to arrest him.

midas007 13y ago

Never talk to the cops. Period. You can't help yourself by proving you have "nothing to hide." The only word emanating from your vocal cords should be "lawyer."

baddox 13y ago
That is good legal advice. Not necessarily good advice for a person's well-being. Cops throw people in jail and let them die there, or even kill them directly, for less than this.
- fjhqjv 13y ago
  Please cite references if you're suggesting that people in the U.S. are routinely killed or jailed for life without trial for requesting legal council.
  - busterarm 13y ago
    http://www.cato.org/raidmap http://www.cato.org/raidmap Here's one. Edit: Hell, it's not even a joke anymore that cops routinely kill the physically and mentally ill. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-killed/ http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/north-carolina-teen-ki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas http://raniakhalek.com/2013/10/08/georgia-police-kill-diabetic-black-man-after-family-calls-911-requesting-ambulance/ http://raniakhalek.com/2013/10/08/georgia-police-kill-diabet... http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/sick-elderly-black-man-was-shot-death http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/sick-elderly-black-ma... http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019235236_duffy23m.html http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2019235236_duffy23m.h... http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-killed-harlem-man-mix-up-lawsuit-article-1.1542361 http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/cops-killed-ha... http://gothamist.com/2008/09/25/after_cop_tasers_him_naked_man_fall.php http://gothamist.com/2008/09/25/after_cop_tasers_him_naked_m... and even things like http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/mentally-ill-man-froze-to-death-days-after-police-were-called-b99179254z1-239175731.html http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/mentally-ill-man-froz...