18 ms·

This isn't really a story about the woes of being a google glass user, it's a story about how people don't know their rights and how to apply them. This man is

• MatthewWilkes 13y ago
  Please, sir, go through my private photos. I've got nothing to hide!
  • puppetmaster3 13y ago
    Shame that he did that.
• zobzu 13y ago
  Note that the authorities did tell him they were going to cause him more problems if he didn't cooperate. So, that makes the choice of telling them nothing pretty hard.
  • llamataboot 13y ago
    No, this is what they rely on. It is the basic "If you have nothing to hide, why are you hiding" line of questioning. It's especially used to search cars at traffic stops. Correct: "Am I being detained? Am I free to go?" (repeat until one gets an answer) If free to go - leave If not free to go - don't say another word Don't consent to a search. Don't try to be nice. Don't believe any bullshit you are told: "Look, we're trying to be nice here, if you don't want to be nice, we can take you down to the station." "You know what happens if we have to call to wake up a judge at this hour to get a search warrant?" "Ok, then we'll just wait here until the dogs come" or the almost always used - "Am I being arrested?" "Do you want to be?" -- It's all bullshit and used to get verbal consent to searches and verbal answers to questions. You may feel like an asshole, especially if you really do have "nothing to hide". The cops will do their best to make you feel scared of what they will do if you don't cooperate. You may have a ton of privilege (perhaps you are a cis-gendered white man) and you feel that cashing it in and talking man-to-man in a nice way with the cops will get you on your way quicker. And it may. But one time, it may not, and you'll wish you hadn't talked. And of the larger overarching issue of living a police state with nominal checks and balances on what the cops can and can't do, it behooves us all to limit their power to their legal minimum as much as possible.
    • x0054 13y ago
      The only thing I would add to this is don't be a dick, you don't want them to have an excuse to arrest you. Ask in a nice and polite voice "Am I under arrest?" If the verbal answer from the police is anything but a short and clear "Yes," tell the cop "I understand your answer to mean that No, I am not under arrest. I am terminating this conversation and I am going to leave now." This doesn't apply to traffic stops for speeding or something like that, in those cases being nice will get you far. But if you are suspected of a real crime, for god sakes, keep your mouth shot, and if you are not under arrest, leave ASAP.
      • llamataboot 13y ago
        Sorry, but it absolutely does also apply during traffic stops. Many a routine traffic stop for a broken taillight or some such other nonsense has turned into something else as soon as someone said "sure, no problem" when the cops asked, "You mind if I just take a quick look around?"
        • x0054 13y ago
          You are right. What I meant is don't be a dick to cops if they are pulling you over for speeding. If they ask you how fast you were going, don't start reciting the 5th amendment. If they ask you if they can look in your trunk, just say no, you have nothing to hide, but unless they have a warrant or probable cause, they can not look. I say that because I had a friend who got arrested at one of those sobriety checkpoints. They stopped him and asked him if he has been drinking. He said no, and he hasn't. But then to prove his point he started yelling that he demands that they test him because they wasted his time, so now he wants them to breathalyze him. They arrested him on a suspicion of being high on drugs instead. He wasn't, but I still had to bail him out of prison in the middle of the night. The charges were dropped, of course. The lesson is, be firm but polite and respectful. Know you rights, and exercise them, but don't be a dick about it.
          • mikeash 13y ago
            Seems to me that it's the same in all cases, whether it's a traffic stop or you're being questioned in connection to a murder: be firm but polite. Don't give out any info you're not required to, but don't be an asshole. Clearly there will be some differences (i.e. you should insist on a lawyer if you're being questioned about a murder, but should not do this during a traffic stop) but my point is that we should not consider a polite insistence on your rights and polite refusal to give out information beyond what's required to be in and of itself being a dick.
  • coralreef 13y ago
    "Authorities" will say almost anything to get suspects to cooperate. Cooperation is usually actually some form of self-incrimination. Unfortunately the average person doesn't understand the system as well as an officer/agent does, so they're susceptible to these kinds of tactics.
    • 3pt14159 13y ago
      Yeah, if an authority ever tells me to cooperate I'm just going to say that I want to, that is what I need my lawyer for. To understand how we can best cooperate.
    • deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  • mikeash 13y ago
    Just remember that police are allowed to lie to you, and will do so any time they think it's to their advantage.
    • jrs235 13y ago
      And remember you're not allowed to lie to them. You'll be charged with obstructing justice or interfering with a police investigation. With such lopsided rules its foolish to "play the game". I really wish there were laws saying government officers and officials may not lie otherwise they too would be charged with obstructing the truth.
  • jasonwocky 13y ago
    It's no choice at all. Don't talk. Look, I understand these guys have a job to do, and they have a certain toolset they're allowed to use to do it. I don't begrudge them that. But damned if I'm going to let a sense of civic duty lead to my self-incrimination. A friend of mine spent some time at the Public Defenders office. The number of times she saw people send themselves up for long stretches in prison, under circumstances in which the authorities would /never/ have gotten a conviction otherwise, led her to give me the same advice you see every single lawyer on television offer their clients: don't say anything!
    • mpalmer 13y ago
      In support of jasonwocky's comment - this is always worth a watch if you haven't seen it: http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc http://youtu.be/6wXkI4t7nuc
      • midas007 13y ago
        Yup. There's a great misconception by naive people that believe candor begets innocence. Unfortunately, an adversarial legal system instead looks at volunteered information as ammunition.
      • gavinpc 13y ago
        Please, god, hackers, watch that video. Without saying too much here, let's just say I wish I'd seen this video in, say, 2002 (well before it was made).
      • grifpete 13y ago
        Absolutely right: It is witty and extremely compelling viewing. EVERY citizen should watch it.
      • neltnerb 13y ago
        Nice video. My opinion -- people who are smart often think that they know more than police. They may, possibly, but they definitely don't have the training necessary to predict how their statements (even if innocent) can be twisted to imply whatever the prosecutor wants.
  • chrismcb 13y ago
    No, no it doesn't because you have no proof they won't cause you problems if you do cooperate. If they tell him he is free to go, but he stays and gives them information. It is much harder to claim the fifth latter on.
  • dbbolton 13y ago
    I think the point is that you generally have very little to lose by talking to a lawyer before talking to the police, even if you haven't done anything wrong. The sad reality is that "looking guilty" by not talking is usually a lot better than genuinely trying to cooperate and saying something that can be used against you in court.
  • justin66 13y ago
    > Note that the authorities did tell him they were going to cause him more problems if he didn't cooperate. "I would be happy to cooperate fully in the presence of my legal counsel."
    • vubuntu 13y ago
      I have heard this thousands of times, but a common man, a ordinary software engineer, does not have a lawyer on his speed dial. He/She may not even know how to go about finding one without spending at the least 10-15 mins on Google. So how does this work out? If one says "I will only talk in the presence of a lawyer", then the officers say ok, you get your one phone call, go call your lawyer....then what?? Who do I call? Say best thing is to call my wife/friend and have them find and bring a lawyer.....but what if neither my wife/friend is immediately reachable and I waste my one phone call away....then what?? Are the officers obligated to provide me a 'public' lawyer ?? It's easy to say "don't talk ever without lawyer being present" , but if I don't know what to do after saying that, and I do know there is nothing to be hidden (100% sure) and have reasonable belief that they will let me go once they are convinced of that, then which do you think is an easier choice for me, especially in that panic/stressful mode??
      • cperciva 13y ago
        you get your one phone call Is that actually how it works in the US? A judge in Canada recently lamented this as a "misconception brought on by watching too many Hollywood movies", and pointed out that (at least in Canada) you can make as many phone calls as you need in order to get a lawyer.
      • koenigdavidmj 13y ago
        If they want to question you, it is in their best interest to get you a lawyer. You have the right not to answer questions until a lawyer is present (and after, but that's not my point).
      • tdfx 13y ago
        If you're in a room being questioned by police, they already want to arrest you. If they're still talking to you and have not charged you yet, there's a good chance they don't feel they have a slam dunk case, and they need to extract more information to get a conviction and not get reamed out by the prosecutor. Just ask for a lawyer. Don't worry about having to sit there in awkward silence for hours if it comes to that. There's no law that says if you can't find a lawyer in X amount of time after asking, you don't get one. You don't have to schedule a time for a lawyer to come in to get you. Once you ask for a lawyer (which should effectively terminate the questioning, or at least it should), one of three things may happen: (1) you will be arrested and charged. You gave them no new evidence to use against you, so you're in the best possible position. (2) you will be "detained" for some amount of time while they go about sketchy, quasi-legal moves to gather more evidence against you (applying for search warrants for saliva/blood sample, your vehicle, home, etc. and they want to keep an eye on you until these are approved and executed). Depending on how their fishing expedition goes, either #1 or #3 will follow. (3) they will release you. Regardless of what happens, DO NOT TALK TO THEM. The one thing that no one ever mentions is that the police usually don't follow the rules, and the courts usually don't penalize them for it. The only way to protect yourself is to shut up. Don't even make small talk. It's a chess game and there's no move you can make where you don't lose. Do and say nothing.
  • downandout 13y ago
    If you'd like to hear both a lawyer and a cop explain in explicit detail why you should never talk to the police, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc Regardless of what a cop threatens (or promises as the case may be), they are legally bound to arrest you if they believe a crime has been committed, and are not empowered to make deals with you. You will never talk yourself out of an arrest, but you can talk yourself into one. Therefore you should never talk to the police under any circumstances. In this case, the guy actually cost himself time by talking to them. Had he refused, since a mere suspicion was not enough to book him, they would have had nothing to do other than connect the Glass and find out that there were no movies on it.
    • baddox 13y ago
      > they are legally bound to... The problem is that cops routinely do things they aren't legally bound to do.
    • quadyeast 13y ago
      What if you are a witness to a crime? Do you still only communicate to the police through an attorney?
      • downandout 13y ago
        In general it's best to only communicate with police through an attorney - without regard to the circumstances. A greater than zero percentage of people start out as witnesses and wind up as suspects.
      • DanBC 13y ago
        Woman calls police for help. Was tased and pepper sprayed. http://www.popehat.com/2010/07/12/i-found-my-third-grade-teacher-intimidating-when-i-was-in-third-grade/ http://www.popehat.com/2010/07/12/i-found-my-third-grade-tea...
  • jakejake 13y ago
    This is just a classic example of not knowing your rights. Of course they will make you think it will be worse if you don't cooperate. The opposite is always true - the only thing that will happen by talking is that you will make things worse. If you did nothing wrong, then you absolutely no reason to talk or say anything except "am I under arrest and am I free to go?"
  • PavlovsCat 13y ago
    > Note that the authorities did tell him they were going to cause him more problems if he didn't cooperate. Because it can't hurt to try, can it?. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKiYpsQhZsI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKiYpsQhZsI for a bunch of highly fascinating examples of cops outright lying and people not falling for it. Not entirely the same situation, but this line from the article sure "smells" similar: > I asked why didn’t they just take those five minutes at the beginning of the interrogation and they just left the room.
  • aoeuaue 13y ago
    Are you serious? You never talk to police. I thought everyone knew that..
  • fit2rule 13y ago
    The only correct response to these threats: "I am innocent, and my lawyer will absolutely investigate you and your group, and we will prosecute you for any law-breaking he finds - including denying me my rights, stealing my property, immitating a law officer."
    • dalke 13y ago
      No. The correct response is. "I exercise my right to be silent. I do not consent to a search. Am I being detained or am I free to go?" And if you are arrested, "I demand to speak to an attorney." See for example https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform-immigrants-rights-racial-justice/know-your-rights-what-do-if-you https://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform-immigrants-rights-racia... . What you listed here might make you feel better at the moment, but it doesn't express that you want to exercise your rights. If you don't express that you want to use those rights then the police can keep on doing what they want. Do not claim you are innocent. You don't know all of the things they are investigating, and lying to an officer is illegal. The rest of what you said is easily interpreted as bluster.
      • fit2rule 13y ago
        The moment citizens decide that rent-a-cops have greater rights than they do, civilized society ends. Either you keep these people in check by reminding them of your rights to investigate them to the full extent of the law, or you live in a vassal state.
        • dalke 13y ago
          Yes, "bluster" was the right term. According to your suggested phrasing above, if your lawyer does not investigate and then prosecute any apparent law-breaking, then you have just lied to a police officer. That can be an expensive phrase to follow up on. If you are arrested, and convicted wrongly (which we know does happen), then your assertion of innocence is, to the courts, another lie. According to the Supreme Court, you must say that you are going to remain silent in order to exercise that constitutional right. Your suggested phrasing shows that the citizen saying that is ignorant of the law, and is more likely that the "rent-a-cops" will use intimidation and other forms of persuasion to extract information in hopes of making an arrest. You don't care, since you don't recognize the laws as being just. But it is bad manners to suggest your course of action to anyone who is not aware of what their legal rights are under this unjust regime. A martyr without reason is just another arrest statistic.
• ww520 13y ago
  Whether wearing a camera to the movies is non-consequential. Only if one is actively taping that one is breaking the law. Possessing the potential doesn't break the law. Otherwise, the theater male management should be charged with rape since they are well equipped with the potential to rape.
  • repsilat 13y ago
    Are you sure? Do you mean that you know the law of the relevant jurisdictions and can confidently interpret it, or do you just mean that it shouldn't be illegal? There are plenty of crimes that exist on the books as preventative measures against serious wrongs being done. Sometimes it's worth prohibiting harmless but easily enforced activities if they're corellated the right way with harmful ones.
• teawrecks 13y ago
  In his defense, we're never going to have nice things (like being able to wear tiny cameras on our heads all the time) without shit like this happening at some point in history. One day we could have computers in our contacts, and at some point between Google Glass and Google Contacts, the FBI is going to accuse people of doing illegal things with them.
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• esschul 13y ago
  Must be horrible to live in a country where police can and do abuse you like this. 3rd world. Are you all out to get each other?
• tluyben2 13y ago
  Another thing 'we' here in the EU don't really get; if you watched even ONE cop show from the US, you know that you ONLY utter ONE thing when you get arrested/detained/whatever: 'lawyer'. And nothing else. So why, in the same cop shows and real life, do people start blabbing?
  • Sharlin 13y ago
    In cop shows, because it serves the plot better; in real life, because humans are not very rational creatures and the intuitive need to try to explain yourself is strong, especially if you're in the company of people who know a couple of psychological tricks on how to make people talk.
• asmithmd1 13y ago
  Here is some pragmatic advice about when to talk with police from someone who has been stopped by police when they could have legitimately arrested him. If you have done something wrong where someone got hurt - don't talk to them. Otherwise, it depends: http://tuckermax.me/how-to-deal-with-cops-2/ http://tuckermax.me/how-to-deal-with-cops-2/
• random_user_kun 13y ago
  Hi, does this apply to non US citizen residing in the United States? Those one without permanent resident but on visas such as H1B, F1 or J1?