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This is just one of the worst things I've ever read on Cutt's blog. Because they can't really distinguish good guest posting from 'passable' guest posting, it'

This is just one of the worst things I've ever read on Cutt's blog. Because they can't really distinguish good guest posting from 'passable' guest posting, it's all done? Got news for you: guest blogging is relevant for many more reasons than Google. In fact, that's probably one of the least important reasons to guest post or guest blog these days. Referral traffic that is more qualified than organic search, audience building, reaching new channels that organic search cannot quite tap, and many more non-SEO oriented reasons are why guest blogging will never really die out in the way that other types of linkbuilding have died out. You have to love the world's biggest scraper and source of 'duplicate content' (all the scraped info from weather, wikipedia, etc in their sidebar these days) making up the rules of what is and isn't allowed. Extremely hypocritical, but the good news is that relying on Google never was necessary, and is becoming less and less so as time goes on.

stephp 13y ago
Exactly. I've been an avid guest blogger, and it has never had anything to do with Google. It's about a wide-reaching, respected brand vouching for my work. There's no PR more valuable than when a relevant influencer grants you their audience. Having a well-trafficked blog of my own, I also receive hundreds of these awful spam emails. But why would I ever take their offer? My blog is respected by my niche because I would never post junk. Niether would the publications I write for. That's why there's still an audience there.
- Matt_Cutts 13y ago
  stephp, it's great that you sound like a high-quality contributor, but my intent was to highlight the issues around the hundreds of awful spam emails that you mentioned receiving. I've seen a lot of business owners fall for them. :(
  - graeme 13y ago
    Matt, if that's the case, then perhaps you should clarify the original blog post. Guest posting is something I would do even if Google didn't consider links at all in their ranking. If a site author accepts high quality guest posts, should they no-follow the outbound links? That appears to be the message in your blog post.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - Matt_Cutts 13y ago
      "perhaps you should clarify the original blog post." I added some paragraphs of clarification to the blog post.
      - graeme 13y ago
        Thanks. It's clearer now, though you may consider retooling this in the future. Usually I've found your writing + videos admirably clear, but the message here still seems a bit off. If it helps give you an idea why it's confusing: I get tons of spam comments on my site offering me spam content generation tools, among other spammy offerings. They're obviously spam. I'm sure some people do fall for these ploys, and it's unfortunate. An appropriate message would be "don't fall for these". An inappropriate message would be "if you're relying on content generation in 2014, stop". In other words, just because something has spammy elements, doesn't invalidate the practice entirely. What's still unclear about your blog post is this: If someone does legitimate, high quality guest posting, the kind they would do without Google, is this a positive or a negative in Google's eyes, and should links be no-followed the same way you'd do for a high quality affiliate or high quality sponsor.
makomk 13y ago
Google have reached the point where they know that every website is fundamentally dependent on them, and now they're taking advantage of it that to make their lives easier by forcing the entire internet to change every time some commonplace practice makes their algorithm's life harder. They've been doing it on a technical level for a while, in terms of stuff like how ads may link to the destination. Now they've simply moved onto dictating the culture and social norms of the Internet. If your way of sharing good writing with your actual readers makes life harder for Google, well you'd better change your practices or they'll punish you, even if you're not doing it for them.
- sethetter 13y ago
  Content creators have always somewhat had to bend to the will of the major promoters. It is unfortunate that Google has gained a position that allows them to dictate the means of content promotion, but overall the goal of any content creator is to have it seen. As far as I'm aware, they've always had to fit their way of sharing into some other external system. Creators have to get their content to the audience, and if Google is bringing the audience, then they will do what Google says. Again, it's unfortunate, but not surprising.
- Silhouette 13y ago
  Google have reached the point where they know that every website is fundamentally dependent on them Isn't that exactly the kind of institutional arrogance that the GP post was highlighting? OK, some web sites might still be fundamentally dependent on Google. Personally, I'd advise against relying on a business model based primarily on search traffic for a number of reasons, but of course everyone is free to try it if they like. However, I somehow doubt big name brands like Microsoft or Audi or McDonalds would suffer irrevocable harm if Google disappeared tomorrow. Nor would major sites like Wikipedia or Facebook. Nor would all the popular forum/news aggregator sites, or the popular source sites that repeatedly get linked from them. Perhaps more telling, I doubt any of the much smaller niche/hobby or family business type sites I know about would suffer greatly if Google vanished tomorrow either. The big G represents only a modest share of the incoming traffic in each case, and moreover the quality of that traffic in terms of engagement and conversions is relatively low compared to most other major sources. They are often beaten on volume by at least one order of magnitude by a single link from an influential blogger in a relevant field who is genuinely suggesting that their readers visit that site, or the equivalent via Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, Pinterest, etc. And that's before you count the viral effect, which can bump the difference to multiple orders of magnitude. Content is king, as Cutts has often said, but in 2014 good content can be found many ways without any help from Google. I suspect this issue is symptomatic of a serious and long-term difficulty for Google search: their foundation is still basically the idea that you can judge the worth of a page by how many incoming links it sees. I'm reasonably sure that unless they have some shady deals going on with various popular social media sites, they don't even know about probably 90% of the incoming links to most of those little sites I mentioned, nor about 99% of the links my friends and family share to other people's sites. All they've got left is the public blogs and the assorted SEO tricksters, and that's not where a lot of people share genuine recommendations any more.
jonknee 13y ago
You must have missed the first sentence: > if you’re using guest blogging as a way to gain links in 2014, you should probably stop Guest-blogging as a link gaining technique is dead. If you want it for prestige, referrers, or whatever, keep on keeping on. You may want to nofollow though.
- Silhouette 13y ago
  Guest-blogging as a link gaining technique is dead. Of course it's not. Cutts seems to be under the mistaken impression that hyperlinks were invented to provide source data for his employer, and that if his employer now chooses not to pay attention to some of them then the rest of us won't either. In reality, if there's a link in the guest blog post, people reading that post can follow it. If it's a popular blog and an interesting post on it by the guest author, probably quite a few readers readers will.
  - SEOthrowaway 13y ago
    "Cutts seems to be under the mistaken impression that hyperlinks were invented to provide source data for his employer." This is the reality of 2014: Google thinks hyperlinks have been invented for their algorithm, and not the other way round. Oh the mighty.
  - jonknee 13y ago
    I know this is HN, but we're in some really pedantic territory here. Matt Cutts is simply saying that you should re-think your strategy if you want page rank and think guest blogging is a way to do accomplish that goal. Matt knows his audience and doesn't have to spell out everything to the nth degree--when he talks link building it's 100% of the time page rank related.
    - Silhouette 13y ago
      The trouble is, there's something akin to Poe's law going on with Googlers these days: I find it very hard to tell whether they're speaking or writing specifically and assuming their audience will somehow infer their intended context, or whether they really are starting to believe that the entire Internet revolves around Google and they have some divine authority to tell everyone else how to make their sites. When they start giving out blanket advice about what people "should" do, particularly when the advice is as self-serving and frankly laughable as it is in this case, I find it increasingly difficult to give them the benefit of the doubt. I suspect they damage their credibility a little more every time any of them speaks or writes this way.
Matt_Cutts 13y ago
halcyondaze, we see a lot of business owners with small blogs getting tricked by spammers. If you're doing really high-quality guest blogging to get exposure or branding, that's great, but the majority of guest blogging offers these days are sliding into scuzzier and spammier areas.
- bhartzer 13y ago
  Will the business owners with small blogs get hit by Google or will those doing the guest blogging (those getting the link) get hit?
  - jfoster 13y ago
    Probably neither. Google talks about dodgy practices more than they actually enforce against them. Until they actually state that they are penalizing something, they are probably not penalizing it.
- stephp 13y ago
  This is the part that confuses me, I guess. The business owner gets the email. It sounds spammy. Maybe they fall for it anyway and receive the article to post. But don't they then realize that it's crappy? It's not as if spammers are logging in to their WordPress account and posting on their behalf. Business owners ultimately have full veto and editing power. So why don't they cut out the spammy stuff like keyword links? Or, if the content is really garbage, say "no thanks"? The only reason I can see is if they're terribly desperate for content, in which case they're knowingly degrading their own platform.
  - prawn 13y ago
    Have you seen what some less tech-savvy small business owners write themselves as content for their site? Not sure that all of them would recognise exceptionally poor material, especially when they're told by their web developer that it's important to get more content up on their site.
    - 13y ago
bdcravens 13y ago
High quality content marketing isn't about Google rank. Google has no control over a visitor to a highly credible blog trusting you as a source and clicking on a link. Clicking the link shouldn't even be necessary, if you're establishing expertise for yourself and your company. If your sole reason for guest blogging is Google juice, it's reasonable to rethink that strategy.

stephp 13y ago

Exactly. I've been an avid guest blogger, and it has never had anything to do with Google. It's about a wide-reaching, respected brand vouching for my work. There's no PR more valuable than when a relevant influencer grants you their audience. Having a well-trafficked blog of my own, I also receive hundreds of these awful spam emails. But why would I ever take their offer? My blog is respected by my niche because I would never post junk. Niether would the publications I write for. That's why there's still an audience there.

Matt_Cutts 13y ago
stephp, it's great that you sound like a high-quality contributor, but my intent was to highlight the issues around the hundreds of awful spam emails that you mentioned receiving. I've seen a lot of business owners fall for them. :(
- graeme 13y ago
  Matt, if that's the case, then perhaps you should clarify the original blog post. Guest posting is something I would do even if Google didn't consider links at all in their ranking. If a site author accepts high quality guest posts, should they no-follow the outbound links? That appears to be the message in your blog post.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - Matt_Cutts 13y ago
    "perhaps you should clarify the original blog post." I added some paragraphs of clarification to the blog post.
    - graeme 13y ago
      Thanks. It's clearer now, though you may consider retooling this in the future. Usually I've found your writing + videos admirably clear, but the message here still seems a bit off. If it helps give you an idea why it's confusing: I get tons of spam comments on my site offering me spam content generation tools, among other spammy offerings. They're obviously spam. I'm sure some people do fall for these ploys, and it's unfortunate. An appropriate message would be "don't fall for these". An inappropriate message would be "if you're relying on content generation in 2014, stop". In other words, just because something has spammy elements, doesn't invalidate the practice entirely. What's still unclear about your blog post is this: If someone does legitimate, high quality guest posting, the kind they would do without Google, is this a positive or a negative in Google's eyes, and should links be no-followed the same way you'd do for a high quality affiliate or high quality sponsor.

makomk 13y ago

Google have reached the point where they know that every website is fundamentally dependent on them, and now they're taking advantage of it that to make their lives easier by forcing the entire internet to change every time some commonplace practice makes their algorithm's life harder. They've been doing it on a technical level for a while, in terms of stuff like how ads may link to the destination. Now they've simply moved onto dictating the culture and social norms of the Internet. If your way of sharing good writing with your actual readers makes life harder for Google, well you'd better change your practices or they'll punish you, even if you're not doing it for them.

sethetter 13y ago
Content creators have always somewhat had to bend to the will of the major promoters. It is unfortunate that Google has gained a position that allows them to dictate the means of content promotion, but overall the goal of any content creator is to have it seen. As far as I'm aware, they've always had to fit their way of sharing into some other external system. Creators have to get their content to the audience, and if Google is bringing the audience, then they will do what Google says. Again, it's unfortunate, but not surprising.
Silhouette 13y ago
Google have reached the point where they know that every website is fundamentally dependent on them Isn't that exactly the kind of institutional arrogance that the GP post was highlighting? OK, some web sites might still be fundamentally dependent on Google. Personally, I'd advise against relying on a business model based primarily on search traffic for a number of reasons, but of course everyone is free to try it if they like. However, I somehow doubt big name brands like Microsoft or Audi or McDonalds would suffer irrevocable harm if Google disappeared tomorrow. Nor would major sites like Wikipedia or Facebook. Nor would all the popular forum/news aggregator sites, or the popular source sites that repeatedly get linked from them. Perhaps more telling, I doubt any of the much smaller niche/hobby or family business type sites I know about would suffer greatly if Google vanished tomorrow either. The big G represents only a modest share of the incoming traffic in each case, and moreover the quality of that traffic in terms of engagement and conversions is relatively low compared to most other major sources. They are often beaten on volume by at least one order of magnitude by a single link from an influential blogger in a relevant field who is genuinely suggesting that their readers visit that site, or the equivalent via Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, Pinterest, etc. And that's before you count the viral effect, which can bump the difference to multiple orders of magnitude. Content is king, as Cutts has often said, but in 2014 good content can be found many ways without any help from Google. I suspect this issue is symptomatic of a serious and long-term difficulty for Google search: their foundation is still basically the idea that you can judge the worth of a page by how many incoming links it sees. I'm reasonably sure that unless they have some shady deals going on with various popular social media sites, they don't even know about probably 90% of the incoming links to most of those little sites I mentioned, nor about 99% of the links my friends and family share to other people's sites. All they've got left is the public blogs and the assorted SEO tricksters, and that's not where a lot of people share genuine recommendations any more.

jonknee 13y ago

You must have missed the first sentence: > if you’re using guest blogging as a way to gain links in 2014, you should probably stop Guest-blogging as a link gaining technique is dead. If you want it for prestige, referrers, or whatever, keep on keeping on. You may want to nofollow though.

Silhouette 13y ago
Guest-blogging as a link gaining technique is dead. Of course it's not. Cutts seems to be under the mistaken impression that hyperlinks were invented to provide source data for his employer, and that if his employer now chooses not to pay attention to some of them then the rest of us won't either. In reality, if there's a link in the guest blog post, people reading that post can follow it. If it's a popular blog and an interesting post on it by the guest author, probably quite a few readers readers will.
- SEOthrowaway 13y ago
  "Cutts seems to be under the mistaken impression that hyperlinks were invented to provide source data for his employer." This is the reality of 2014: Google thinks hyperlinks have been invented for their algorithm, and not the other way round. Oh the mighty.
- jonknee 13y ago
  I know this is HN, but we're in some really pedantic territory here. Matt Cutts is simply saying that you should re-think your strategy if you want page rank and think guest blogging is a way to do accomplish that goal. Matt knows his audience and doesn't have to spell out everything to the nth degree--when he talks link building it's 100% of the time page rank related.
  - Silhouette 13y ago
    The trouble is, there's something akin to Poe's law going on with Googlers these days: I find it very hard to tell whether they're speaking or writing specifically and assuming their audience will somehow infer their intended context, or whether they really are starting to believe that the entire Internet revolves around Google and they have some divine authority to tell everyone else how to make their sites. When they start giving out blanket advice about what people "should" do, particularly when the advice is as self-serving and frankly laughable as it is in this case, I find it increasingly difficult to give them the benefit of the doubt. I suspect they damage their credibility a little more every time any of them speaks or writes this way.

Matt_Cutts 13y ago

halcyondaze, we see a lot of business owners with small blogs getting tricked by spammers. If you're doing really high-quality guest blogging to get exposure or branding, that's great, but the majority of guest blogging offers these days are sliding into scuzzier and spammier areas.

bhartzer 13y ago
Will the business owners with small blogs get hit by Google or will those doing the guest blogging (those getting the link) get hit?
- jfoster 13y ago
  Probably neither. Google talks about dodgy practices more than they actually enforce against them. Until they actually state that they are penalizing something, they are probably not penalizing it.
stephp 13y ago
This is the part that confuses me, I guess. The business owner gets the email. It sounds spammy. Maybe they fall for it anyway and receive the article to post. But don't they then realize that it's crappy? It's not as if spammers are logging in to their WordPress account and posting on their behalf. Business owners ultimately have full veto and editing power. So why don't they cut out the spammy stuff like keyword links? Or, if the content is really garbage, say "no thanks"? The only reason I can see is if they're terribly desperate for content, in which case they're knowingly degrading their own platform.
- prawn 13y ago
  Have you seen what some less tech-savvy small business owners write themselves as content for their site? Not sure that all of them would recognise exceptionally poor material, especially when they're told by their web developer that it's important to get more content up on their site.
  - 13y ago

bdcravens 13y ago

High quality content marketing isn't about Google rank. Google has no control over a visitor to a highly credible blog trusting you as a source and clicking on a link. Clicking the link shouldn't even be necessary, if you're establishing expertise for yourself and your company. If your sole reason for guest blogging is Google juice, it's reasonable to rethink that strategy.