4 ms·

so because google's algos can not distinguish between spam and ham, we have to throw out the baby with the bathwater (sorry for mixing metaphors!) we've alread

by lingben 13y ago

so because google's algos can not distinguish between spam and ham, we have to throw out the baby with the bathwater (sorry for mixing metaphors!) we've already seen how google missed a massive and long running link scheme (rapgenius) and had to do a clumsy temporary manual change to save face... now we're seeing them try to stop guest blogging from being used for spam well guess what, every tactic that can be used to create good SEO can be used in the wrong hands for 'bad' SEO. you can leave a great insightful comment or you can leave a spammy comment. you can do a great guest blog article which adds tremendous value or you can do a spammy terrible article google is confessing that they are incapable of telling them apart so they want to destroy the whole thing just so they can go on saying that they still know what they are doing well, let me reiterate what many already know: the emperor has no clothes!

brey 13y ago
well guess what, every tactic that can be used to create good SEO can be used in the wrong hands for 'bad' SEO I would suggest that if you're coming up with 'tactics' for SEO you're already on the road to bad SEO. optimise your search engine placement by, huh, here's a novel idea - having original, good quality content. everything else is secondary. gaming the system is an arms race and not a long-term win.
- ry0ohki 13y ago
  You need links as well. "Sure, but good content will naturally be linked to", but then ask yourself, when was the last time you gave something you liked a dofollow link on your blog? And even if you did, you maybe gave one link for every 100 you enjoyed but didn't. People very rarely link to things these days, and the big guys will pay people to provide links. Guest blogging was previously the ethical way to get those links until people started abusing it.
  - robryan 13y ago
    The model is outdated, most links are now shared in closed networks which will happily nofollow everything. Also depending on your niche many of your users may have never actually placed a link anywhere before (outside of a closed network sharing a link)
- graeme 13y ago
  I'm in a niche where 99% of the content is on forums and no-follow, and the big blogs typically don't link to each other, unless it's a guest post. How the devil are you supposed to get followed links? Not every niche is like tech, where a vibrant news and user community blogs and links to other sites. To their credit, Google does seem to be figuring out that my site is worthwhile, despite the very small amount of inbound, followed links I have.
- 10feet 13y ago
  > having original, good quality content Ok, so once you have that, what then? What you suggest is not a magical panacea.
- unreal37 13y ago
  "I would suggest that if you're coming up with 'tactics' for SEO you're already on the road to bad SEO." I would disagree. If you are constructing your site with NO regard to how Google and other search engines would index the content, you're just throwing money away on web development. If you are not following proper canonical procedures, not giving each page title a unique and descriptive text, and not using rich snippets, you deserve your low search rankings. There is such a thing as good SEO. It's just being smart and letting people find your page. Just like Disney is as concerned with how people get to their theme park as their experience inside.
bradleyjg 13y ago
If the difference between dofollow and nofollow links is outcome determinative over whether or not some article would be written or posted, then it is SEO crap and it should be ignored at best by search engines. And if it's not outcome determinative, just put nofollow on the links and you don't have anything to worry about.
- sentenza 13y ago
  Here's a question, though: Is it obvious for non-technical people that their links must be nofollow links? Maybe I am naive, but I'd imagine that there might still be non-techies out there who would like to be heared (not talking of company blogs, obviously). This thing cuts two ways. What you are saying implies that any person who is not aware of the obscure technical detail "nofollow links" has nothing valuable to say.
  - raganwald 13y ago
    I use markdown for my blog, which is then compiled by Jekyll. Why should I know or care what a nofollow link is? I link to things so that my readers can click on the link and read more about whatever I'm saying. It's my job to act naturally and not try to game the system. It's Google's job to figure out whether I'm acting normally or gaming the system.
  - bradleyjg 13y ago
    That's a legitimate concern, but it has a narrower application than you've suggested. If a blog post doesn't have links that point back to the author's "home" website, then it's not an issue either way. Also, either the author or the guest site can set nofollow. So our hypothetical innocent user has to be sophisticated enough to 1) have a home site, 2) blog on a different site, and 3) include links, (and have some legitimate non-SEO reason to want to put links to his home page in the first place) while at the same time neither he nor his host be sophisticated enough to know about nofollow. It's certainly possible but I'm skeptical that it is a large catagory. Plus, I doubt that whatever countermeasure google comes up with is going to be a nuke from orbit response for a very occasional suspected spammy guest post. Instead I expect they will be going after the many many instances that look like a concerted effort.

by lingben 13y ago

brey 13y ago

well guess what, every tactic that can be used to create good SEO can be used in the wrong hands for 'bad' SEO I would suggest that if you're coming up with 'tactics' for SEO you're already on the road to bad SEO. optimise your search engine placement by, huh, here's a novel idea - having original, good quality content. everything else is secondary. gaming the system is an arms race and not a long-term win.

ry0ohki 13y ago
You need links as well. "Sure, but good content will naturally be linked to", but then ask yourself, when was the last time you gave something you liked a dofollow link on your blog? And even if you did, you maybe gave one link for every 100 you enjoyed but didn't. People very rarely link to things these days, and the big guys will pay people to provide links. Guest blogging was previously the ethical way to get those links until people started abusing it.
- robryan 13y ago
  The model is outdated, most links are now shared in closed networks which will happily nofollow everything. Also depending on your niche many of your users may have never actually placed a link anywhere before (outside of a closed network sharing a link)
graeme 13y ago
I'm in a niche where 99% of the content is on forums and no-follow, and the big blogs typically don't link to each other, unless it's a guest post. How the devil are you supposed to get followed links? Not every niche is like tech, where a vibrant news and user community blogs and links to other sites. To their credit, Google does seem to be figuring out that my site is worthwhile, despite the very small amount of inbound, followed links I have.
10feet 13y ago
> having original, good quality content Ok, so once you have that, what then? What you suggest is not a magical panacea.
unreal37 13y ago
"I would suggest that if you're coming up with 'tactics' for SEO you're already on the road to bad SEO." I would disagree. If you are constructing your site with NO regard to how Google and other search engines would index the content, you're just throwing money away on web development. If you are not following proper canonical procedures, not giving each page title a unique and descriptive text, and not using rich snippets, you deserve your low search rankings. There is such a thing as good SEO. It's just being smart and letting people find your page. Just like Disney is as concerned with how people get to their theme park as their experience inside.

bradleyjg 13y ago

If the difference between dofollow and nofollow links is outcome determinative over whether or not some article would be written or posted, then it is SEO crap and it should be ignored at best by search engines. And if it's not outcome determinative, just put nofollow on the links and you don't have anything to worry about.

sentenza 13y ago
Here's a question, though: Is it obvious for non-technical people that their links must be nofollow links? Maybe I am naive, but I'd imagine that there might still be non-techies out there who would like to be heared (not talking of company blogs, obviously). This thing cuts two ways. What you are saying implies that any person who is not aware of the obscure technical detail "nofollow links" has nothing valuable to say.
- raganwald 13y ago
  I use markdown for my blog, which is then compiled by Jekyll. Why should I know or care what a nofollow link is? I link to things so that my readers can click on the link and read more about whatever I'm saying. It's my job to act naturally and not try to game the system. It's Google's job to figure out whether I'm acting normally or gaming the system.
- bradleyjg 13y ago
  That's a legitimate concern, but it has a narrower application than you've suggested. If a blog post doesn't have links that point back to the author's "home" website, then it's not an issue either way. Also, either the author or the guest site can set nofollow. So our hypothetical innocent user has to be sophisticated enough to 1) have a home site, 2) blog on a different site, and 3) include links, (and have some legitimate non-SEO reason to want to put links to his home page in the first place) while at the same time neither he nor his host be sophisticated enough to know about nofollow. It's certainly possible but I'm skeptical that it is a large catagory. Plus, I doubt that whatever countermeasure google comes up with is going to be a nuke from orbit response for a very occasional suspected spammy guest post. Instead I expect they will be going after the many many instances that look like a concerted effort.