23 ms·

Dawn of Autonomous Corporations Powered by Bitcoin: Part-2

24 points by sidko 13y ago

belltownMMC 13y ago
Very interesting. I got very excited about MemoryCoin Autonomous Corporation. Machine hires humans!
- melarina 13y ago
  Unfortunately, it's really FreeTrade who hires you. He has more than 9% of all the coins in existence and as a result plays kingmaker when it comes to voting and who is hired. At one point he abused the system, using ~47,000 coins donated to charity to give himself even greater control over elections. To his credit, he stopped once others discovered what he was doing. ... of course as a former Memeorycoin (MMC) officer/candidate, you already know all of this. You're just here hoping to do a little astroturfing.
  - awky 13y ago
    I thought he had less than 100K MMC. Once all coins are mined he will only have 1% of all coins, if that. Besides he can be outplaced as a CEO via voting. I looked at all coins, and I really like the setup for this one. I don't understand all the drama and politics around the pre-mine however. So while I'm diversified, I decided to dedicate some resources to MMC mining for fun. Am I missing something here? Is this really as big of a concern as you describe it? I've seen FreeTrade reward devs with 5000MMC here and there (that was equivalent to about $2K at the time). I haven't heard of the voting manipulation with the charity money, can you provide more info or links to the data in the block chain? I'd be curious to see that.
    - whyenot 13y ago
      You might want to check out the Memory Coin forum at bitsharestalk.org After pressure from many people, Freetrade finally disclosed his holding in the locked sticky "interview" thread. Check out several of the other threads for more information. There's also a lot of drama. I thought MMC had a lot of potential, it really is an interesting idea. But based on some of Freetrades actions (the premine, his voting with charity money, the ridiculously biased "investment guide" he's been spamming all over the place, etc.) the whole thing comes across as kind of scammy and dishonest. Sorry Freetrade, I know you're reading this. Heck, maybe awky is you.
      - awky 13y ago
        I'm just a miner who likes the premise of MMC a lot. I am definitely not FreeTrade, I find this thought disturbing. In fact I don't fully agree with his direction and may consider running for CEO at some point. But as of now I don't know a better fit (disclosure: I haven't voted for CEO yet, only submitted vote for the CMO guy). If you have better ideas and think you can take this coin in a better direction, I would love to see your nomination for CEO. It sounds like you are like me and liked the idea, so why not fix it, instead of just blame it? Is there a way to address the pre-mine concerns if there is a new CEO in place?
memorycoinmmc 13y ago
Excellent article, as always! Great explanation about the power of incentivized human maintenance.
melloclello 13y ago
I imagine a future dominated by the latter kind of corporation - once someone builds the first profitable self-owning entity (I dunno, maybe it engages in high-frequency trading or direct marketing all day long) that can rent its own server space and reproduce itself, it will spawn out of control.
jerf 13y ago
I've complained before about the problem of BitCoin not having any backing [1]. Creating backing by making BitCoin (or $CRYPTOCURRENCY) a percentage ownership of some company is an interesting possibility, though one wonders how to distribute dividends properly. The implications stagger the mind, honestly. Not necessarily all in a good way, but it's the best idea for a BitCoin/$CRYPTOCURRENCY backing I've heard yet. [1]: "But neither does the US Dollar!" Yes, it does; the US government acccepts taxes only in the form of dollars, and has the authority to force many other entities to render unto it taxes. Upon this basis is the value of government fiat currencies built, and it's why currencies follow the fate of their issuing government quite precisely. (The "it has no backing" model would predict that the currency could float on regardless, which they observationally do not do.)
- dllthomas 13y ago
  Bitcoin is backed by the bitcoin network, as the means of paying transaction fees.
  - oleganza 13y ago
    Network can work pretty well at $10/BTC and at $10000/BTC. Bitcoin is "backed" in the same sense as gold: it's just unforgeable, divisible scarce asset which makes it a good collectible. If it has any value at all (in the eyes of some collectors), it can be used as a medium of exchange and can potentially acquire many more collectors willing to hold it in expectation that they can sell it any time for something else valuable. USD is a collectible too, without any "backing". Some time ago USD was gold backed, meaning it was a promise to give you a certain amount of metal from the bank. Since 1972 (actually, for average Joe it all started even earlier, at Bretton Woods agreement) USD is officially not backed by gold. It's a pure collectible protected from forgery by law enforcement (both paper bills and banking transactions) and also protected from competing collectibles by various regulations and controls. As long as govt does not print dollars too quickly, it remains being a scarce asset which can be used as a collectible. Enforced requirement to pay taxes only works as long as dollars are demanded on the open market as a scarce collectible. If dollars are only needed as tokens to be purchased from govt with real goods (or bitcoins) to be paid back to it, then they have no meaning as money and it's going to be just a fancy way to pay taxes in something else.

24 points by sidko 13y ago

belltownMMC 13y ago

Very interesting. I got very excited about MemoryCoin Autonomous Corporation. Machine hires humans!

melarina 13y ago
Unfortunately, it's really FreeTrade who hires you. He has more than 9% of all the coins in existence and as a result plays kingmaker when it comes to voting and who is hired. At one point he abused the system, using ~47,000 coins donated to charity to give himself even greater control over elections. To his credit, he stopped once others discovered what he was doing. ... of course as a former Memeorycoin (MMC) officer/candidate, you already know all of this. You're just here hoping to do a little astroturfing.
- awky 13y ago
  I thought he had less than 100K MMC. Once all coins are mined he will only have 1% of all coins, if that. Besides he can be outplaced as a CEO via voting. I looked at all coins, and I really like the setup for this one. I don't understand all the drama and politics around the pre-mine however. So while I'm diversified, I decided to dedicate some resources to MMC mining for fun. Am I missing something here? Is this really as big of a concern as you describe it? I've seen FreeTrade reward devs with 5000MMC here and there (that was equivalent to about $2K at the time). I haven't heard of the voting manipulation with the charity money, can you provide more info or links to the data in the block chain? I'd be curious to see that.
  - whyenot 13y ago
    You might want to check out the Memory Coin forum at bitsharestalk.org After pressure from many people, Freetrade finally disclosed his holding in the locked sticky "interview" thread. Check out several of the other threads for more information. There's also a lot of drama. I thought MMC had a lot of potential, it really is an interesting idea. But based on some of Freetrades actions (the premine, his voting with charity money, the ridiculously biased "investment guide" he's been spamming all over the place, etc.) the whole thing comes across as kind of scammy and dishonest. Sorry Freetrade, I know you're reading this. Heck, maybe awky is you.
    - awky 13y ago
      I'm just a miner who likes the premise of MMC a lot. I am definitely not FreeTrade, I find this thought disturbing. In fact I don't fully agree with his direction and may consider running for CEO at some point. But as of now I don't know a better fit (disclosure: I haven't voted for CEO yet, only submitted vote for the CMO guy). If you have better ideas and think you can take this coin in a better direction, I would love to see your nomination for CEO. It sounds like you are like me and liked the idea, so why not fix it, instead of just blame it? Is there a way to address the pre-mine concerns if there is a new CEO in place?

memorycoinmmc 13y ago

Excellent article, as always! Great explanation about the power of incentivized human maintenance.

melloclello 13y ago

I imagine a future dominated by the latter kind of corporation - once someone builds the first profitable self-owning entity (I dunno, maybe it engages in high-frequency trading or direct marketing all day long) that can rent its own server space and reproduce itself, it will spawn out of control.

jerf 13y ago

I've complained before about the problem of BitCoin not having any backing [1]. Creating backing by making BitCoin (or $CRYPTOCURRENCY) a percentage ownership of some company is an interesting possibility, though one wonders how to distribute dividends properly. The implications stagger the mind, honestly. Not necessarily all in a good way, but it's the best idea for a BitCoin/$CRYPTOCURRENCY backing I've heard yet. [1]: "But neither does the US Dollar!" Yes, it does; the US government acccepts taxes only in the form of dollars, and has the authority to force many other entities to render unto it taxes. Upon this basis is the value of government fiat currencies built, and it's why currencies follow the fate of their issuing government quite precisely. (The "it has no backing" model would predict that the currency could float on regardless, which they observationally do not do.)

dllthomas 13y ago
Bitcoin is backed by the bitcoin network, as the means of paying transaction fees.
- oleganza 13y ago
  Network can work pretty well at $10/BTC and at $10000/BTC. Bitcoin is "backed" in the same sense as gold: it's just unforgeable, divisible scarce asset which makes it a good collectible. If it has any value at all (in the eyes of some collectors), it can be used as a medium of exchange and can potentially acquire many more collectors willing to hold it in expectation that they can sell it any time for something else valuable. USD is a collectible too, without any "backing". Some time ago USD was gold backed, meaning it was a promise to give you a certain amount of metal from the bank. Since 1972 (actually, for average Joe it all started even earlier, at Bretton Woods agreement) USD is officially not backed by gold. It's a pure collectible protected from forgery by law enforcement (both paper bills and banking transactions) and also protected from competing collectibles by various regulations and controls. As long as govt does not print dollars too quickly, it remains being a scarce asset which can be used as a collectible. Enforced requirement to pay taxes only works as long as dollars are demanded on the open market as a scarce collectible. If dollars are only needed as tokens to be purchased from govt with real goods (or bitcoins) to be paid back to it, then they have no meaning as money and it's going to be just a fancy way to pay taxes in something else.