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I'm not a libertarian, but if I were, I would find this horribly offensive. > What you also get from the report is just how connected all this stuff is with li

I'm not a libertarian, but if I were, I would find this horribly offensive. > What you also get from the report is just how connected all this stuff is with libertarian derp Much of prominent libertarian philosophy is derived from principles of nonviolence. Of course, it is infer thaf this statement to apply to all libertarians, but simply dismissing them as 'libertarian derp' based on one violent individual is deliberately misleading. Also, talking about Amy Adams and her cleavage? This is the New York Times, not Maxim. I expect better from Krugman.

eudox 13y ago
>I expect better from Krugman. lol
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
dredmorbius 13y ago
DPR espoused and was embraced by Libertarians. Turned out to be a contract-killing, drug-dealing, law breaking psychopath. Seems to me there's a couple of avenues to turn onto here. One is to defend Libertarianism against its critics by badmouthing those who point out that Ulbricht really wasn't a particularly nice guy or a close adherent to the nonviolent principles screed on his LinkedIn page. The other would be to disavow Ulbricht and make clear that his views have no place within the Libertarian camp, and that he's a false representative of the goals of the philosophy. Not that I'm any defender of Libertarianism (it's an infantile philosophy based on fabricated principles coopted by psychopathic timocrats, but that's a longer rant). Which, in a slightly different context, is pretty much exactly the same sort of point that's been made with regards to extremest violence carried out in the name of Christian or Muslim traditions. Or corporate violence against individuals or groups. Or nationalist violence carried out by the any of a number of countries: Argentina, Syria, Egypt, the US, UK, Belgium, Japan, Germany, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, the USSR, South Africa, .... I'm not singling anyone out here, there's plenty of outrage to go around. Yours, however, is misplaced.
- chimeracoder 13y ago
  > DPR espoused and was embraced by Libertarians. Turned out to be a contract-killing, drug-dealing, law breaking psychopath. Nelson Mandela has been embraced by people and organizations that I would otherwise classify as peace-loving. And they knew the entire time that he was a "terrorist"! Ideologies are complex. One may agree with parts of a person's work, but not other parts of their means (or vice versa, or any other possible combination). It's unfair to say that DPR's shady behind-the-scenes actions are somehow characteristic of an entire ideology that happened to agree with some other consequences of his work, and therefore grounds to dismiss them entirely.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    That's a mighty flexible set of moral values you've got there. The people NM was violently active against were also, as it turns out, acting violently against him, in the name of an absolutely abusive system. And when he emerged from a 27 year captivity, he forgave them. Instituted and oversaw a peace and reconciliation process. And worked to heal rifts. Which is why he is absolutely revered around the world. The same cannot be said of Ulbricht's actions and motivations.
- VMG 13y ago
  > Turned out to be a contract-killing, drug-dealing, law breaking psychopath. Libertarians like myself generally don't have a problem with the drug-dealing and law-breaking part. The contract-killing is unfortunate, I agree.
  - dredmorbius 13y ago
    If you're going to go around getting people hooked on highly physically addictive (and quite possibly deadly) substances (cocaine, heroin, meth), not just ganja, My book of business ethics says you're around to pick up the pieces afterwards. Criminalizing drug usage is the wrong way to go. Making sure the market is very, very, very highly regulated, including producer and retailer liabilities for consequences, is required if you're going to address the tremendous negative externalities of drug use. And yes, I hold tobacco, alcohol, and (lawful) pharmaceutical industries to the same standard, noting that they largely fail to meet it. Ulbricht's utter hypocrisy regards nonviolence is particularly telling.
VexXtreme 13y ago
> I expect better from Krugman. You're kidding right?
panarky 13y ago
It might help to define the salient term here, "derp". In July 2013, Krugman defined "derp" [0]: People who take a position and refuse to alter that position no matter how strongly the evidence refutes it, who continue to insist that they have The Truth despite being wrong again and again. Krugman has indefatigably chronicled the failure of libertarian principles to predict outcomes in the real world. Here are a couple examples of spectacular failures in recent years. * Predictions that the Federal Reserve's bond-buying program would result in double-digit inflation (or worse, Weimar-style hyperinflation), but then failing to change their views as the inflation rate hit historic lows. * Claims that the rising price of gold indicates "true" inflation, but then continuing to rail about inflation as the gold price declines 36% from its highs. Similar themes of sound money, the gold standard and Austrian economics are featured prominently in DPR's writings [1]. Krugman considers these to be "Zombie ideas" [2] that have been refuted by real-world experience, yet they continue to shamble forward. Hence, "derp". [0] http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/regions-of-derpistan/ http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/regions-of-derpi... [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/04/29/collected-quotations-of-the-dread-pirate-roberts-founder-of-the-drug-site-silk-road-and-radical-libertarian/2/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/04/29/collect... [2] http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/bodyguard-of-zombies-counterattack-by-cockroaches/ http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/bodyguard-of-zom...

eudox 13y ago

>I expect better from Krugman. lol

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dredmorbius 13y ago

DPR espoused and was embraced by Libertarians. Turned out to be a contract-killing, drug-dealing, law breaking psychopath. Seems to me there's a couple of avenues to turn onto here. One is to defend Libertarianism against its critics by badmouthing those who point out that Ulbricht really wasn't a particularly nice guy or a close adherent to the nonviolent principles screed on his LinkedIn page. The other would be to disavow Ulbricht and make clear that his views have no place within the Libertarian camp, and that he's a false representative of the goals of the philosophy. Not that I'm any defender of Libertarianism (it's an infantile philosophy based on fabricated principles coopted by psychopathic timocrats, but that's a longer rant). Which, in a slightly different context, is pretty much exactly the same sort of point that's been made with regards to extremest violence carried out in the name of Christian or Muslim traditions. Or corporate violence against individuals or groups. Or nationalist violence carried out by the any of a number of countries: Argentina, Syria, Egypt, the US, UK, Belgium, Japan, Germany, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, the USSR, South Africa, .... I'm not singling anyone out here, there's plenty of outrage to go around. Yours, however, is misplaced.

chimeracoder 13y ago
> DPR espoused and was embraced by Libertarians. Turned out to be a contract-killing, drug-dealing, law breaking psychopath. Nelson Mandela has been embraced by people and organizations that I would otherwise classify as peace-loving. And they knew the entire time that he was a "terrorist"! Ideologies are complex. One may agree with parts of a person's work, but not other parts of their means (or vice versa, or any other possible combination). It's unfair to say that DPR's shady behind-the-scenes actions are somehow characteristic of an entire ideology that happened to agree with some other consequences of his work, and therefore grounds to dismiss them entirely.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  That's a mighty flexible set of moral values you've got there. The people NM was violently active against were also, as it turns out, acting violently against him, in the name of an absolutely abusive system. And when he emerged from a 27 year captivity, he forgave them. Instituted and oversaw a peace and reconciliation process. And worked to heal rifts. Which is why he is absolutely revered around the world. The same cannot be said of Ulbricht's actions and motivations.
VMG 13y ago
> Turned out to be a contract-killing, drug-dealing, law breaking psychopath. Libertarians like myself generally don't have a problem with the drug-dealing and law-breaking part. The contract-killing is unfortunate, I agree.
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  If you're going to go around getting people hooked on highly physically addictive (and quite possibly deadly) substances (cocaine, heroin, meth), not just ganja, My book of business ethics says you're around to pick up the pieces afterwards. Criminalizing drug usage is the wrong way to go. Making sure the market is very, very, very highly regulated, including producer and retailer liabilities for consequences, is required if you're going to address the tremendous negative externalities of drug use. And yes, I hold tobacco, alcohol, and (lawful) pharmaceutical industries to the same standard, noting that they largely fail to meet it. Ulbricht's utter hypocrisy regards nonviolence is particularly telling.

VexXtreme 13y ago

> I expect better from Krugman. You're kidding right?

panarky 13y ago

It might help to define the salient term here, "derp". In July 2013, Krugman defined "derp" [0]: People who take a position and refuse to alter that position no matter how strongly the evidence refutes it, who continue to insist that they have The Truth despite being wrong again and again. Krugman has indefatigably chronicled the failure of libertarian principles to predict outcomes in the real world. Here are a couple examples of spectacular failures in recent years. * Predictions that the Federal Reserve's bond-buying program would result in double-digit inflation (or worse, Weimar-style hyperinflation), but then failing to change their views as the inflation rate hit historic lows. * Claims that the rising price of gold indicates "true" inflation, but then continuing to rail about inflation as the gold price declines 36% from its highs. Similar themes of sound money, the gold standard and Austrian economics are featured prominently in DPR's writings [1]. Krugman considers these to be "Zombie ideas" [2] that have been refuted by real-world experience, yet they continue to shamble forward. Hence, "derp". [0] http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/regions-of-derpistan/ http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/06/regions-of-derpi... [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/04/29/collected-quotations-of-the-dread-pirate-roberts-founder-of-the-drug-site-silk-road-and-radical-libertarian/2/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/04/29/collect... [2] http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/bodyguard-of-zombies-counterattack-by-cockroaches/ http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/02/bodyguard-of-zom...