6 ms·

Hmm, I'm from Europe and when I read SWAT I think of highly trained and fit special forces. Now the guys on the photo look like your "off the shelf" cops that

Hmm, I'm from Europe and when I read SWAT I think of highly trained and fit special forces. Now the guys on the photo look like your "off the shelf" cops that couldn't sprint 100 meters without coughing heavily. Is this a consequence of every small town police now having a SWAT team? Or were SWAT teams always composed of "average joes" and the highly trained special forces just a product of Hollywood? Genuinely curious.

alan_cx 13y ago
Me too. The picture looks like a publicity shot for a SWAT based sitcom. I mean, it doesn't 'arf bolster the fat american stereotype.
Robin_Message 13y ago
You've reminded me of a funny quote from Immediate Action or Brazo Two Zero by Andy McNab, autobiographies of a famous British special forces soldier. "No one runs faster than Mr Heckler and Koch." (Heckler and Koch are a German gun manufacturer. If you are heavily armed and armoured, you don't really need to run after or away from your enemies.)
Ygg2 13y ago
Well there are two of three possibilities: 1) All Swat teams look like that, Hollywood lied to us 2) This is a bomb defusal unit, they don't need to move fast 3) It's a small town police unit
- jevinskie 13y ago
  The usual jokes suggest that a bomb defuser might want to run really fast sometimes.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    I assume bomb disposal unit needs to: A) find bomb B) go away from bomb really far C) send robot to defuse the bomb Unless bomb operates on Holywoodium, they can't outrun the explosion or use it to propel themselves.
gamache 13y ago
It turns out that out-of-shape cops are make fairly effective killing machines when you outfit them with automatic rifles and body armor. And, since the US Defense Department can donate excess hardware to police forces, most of the gear comes at a very heavy discount (because it's already been paid for by tax dollars). http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/07/militarization-local-police-america http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/07/militar... As a result, it's not at all uncommon to send a team of local policemen in assault gear to arrest a drug dealer or other minor criminal, or anyone accused anonymously of something horrid -- that's the basis of swatting. Hopefully they get the right house, and don't shoot anyone else or their pets, but it typically isn't a big deal even when the cops screw up.
- blumkvist 13y ago
  The idea of putting regular policemen in special attack forces seems like a disaster waiting to happen to me.
classicsnoot 13y ago
So... Lots of funny, if misinformed comments. To lead off, I am no pig. I have lots and lots of experience with them, I am related to a couple, and I have been very intensely monitoring them for quite some time. I am confident in my assessments and assertions, but they remain only that. What's more, I consider the majority of pigs undertrained, weak minded sheep. I also use the term "pig", instead of the harsher terms they tend to deserve. All of this adds up to a massive bias on my part, so do not forget that when you are typing your pro-pig hell rant. Most US police forces lack the discipline and capability to field a Special Weapons And Tactics team. Instead, they have Volunteers. These are regular beat cops who sat through a few training courses and maybe ran a few smash and grab walk troughs at some point. They keep a flack vest, helmet and carbine AR in their trunk. Most SWAT calls are just beat pigs dealing with something over there head, which can be anything from a person who knows their rights to an actuall increased threat scenario. Real SWAT teams are the picture of tactical efficiency and reserve. Most footage [i completely discount all cinematic SWAT silliness] you will see has yelling and gun pointing and one cute video of a fat, crazy drunk getting zipped up by a SWAT bro with an MP5 [never take a breech loader to an automatic fight]. This discounts all of the rigorous training, both physical and mental, that these operators go through in the short window they are allowed to be in an actual SWAT team. I cannot vouchsafe the conduct of all SWAT, but my anecdotal experience was awesome. I will leave off most the detail, but here is my short story. This was the first time I interacted with SWAT. It will not be the last, I fear. I was in a place I probably should have avoided, when I decided to step out for a jack. I was laughing at a lame joke my friends girlfriend had made [i was/am that guy] as I opened the front door. When I swung my head forward, I was greeted by 6 or 7 homeboys in black tac gear. They were setting to take the door. The point man [guy in front] leveled his hellasweet HK USP .45 at my face and politely asked me to, "please hold the door". I remember being able to see down the barrel of his shooter. He had one in the chamber. I graciously swung the door wide and bowed fairly low, like some drug addled varlet. Point guys swept by as number 2 gently spun me and zip tied my wrists. He kind of whispered "don't be stupid". I do not know what he meant, but I had been a military sycophant for a long time so I knew the drill and sank to my knees. They were done in seconds. 2 of them helped me up gently and ushered me to the couch. They left quietly and broke nothing. I cannot say the same for the overweight, callous detectives that spent 4+ hours figuring out that they had taken a house with no evidence and only one of their targeted suspects [he was released because he had no ID on him]? I have had many experiences with many levels of LEO and none has ever instilled the respect and admiration I have for a true SWAT team. No constables. No kings. Self police is self rule.

alan_cx 13y ago

Me too. The picture looks like a publicity shot for a SWAT based sitcom. I mean, it doesn't 'arf bolster the fat american stereotype.

Robin_Message 13y ago

You've reminded me of a funny quote from Immediate Action or Brazo Two Zero by Andy McNab, autobiographies of a famous British special forces soldier. "No one runs faster than Mr Heckler and Koch." (Heckler and Koch are a German gun manufacturer. If you are heavily armed and armoured, you don't really need to run after or away from your enemies.)

Ygg2 13y ago

Well there are two of three possibilities: 1) All Swat teams look like that, Hollywood lied to us 2) This is a bomb defusal unit, they don't need to move fast 3) It's a small town police unit

jevinskie 13y ago
The usual jokes suggest that a bomb defuser might want to run really fast sometimes.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  I assume bomb disposal unit needs to: A) find bomb B) go away from bomb really far C) send robot to defuse the bomb Unless bomb operates on Holywoodium, they can't outrun the explosion or use it to propel themselves.

gamache 13y ago

It turns out that out-of-shape cops are make fairly effective killing machines when you outfit them with automatic rifles and body armor. And, since the US Defense Department can donate excess hardware to police forces, most of the gear comes at a very heavy discount (because it's already been paid for by tax dollars). http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/07/militarization-local-police-america http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/07/militar... As a result, it's not at all uncommon to send a team of local policemen in assault gear to arrest a drug dealer or other minor criminal, or anyone accused anonymously of something horrid -- that's the basis of swatting. Hopefully they get the right house, and don't shoot anyone else or their pets, but it typically isn't a big deal even when the cops screw up.

blumkvist 13y ago
The idea of putting regular policemen in special attack forces seems like a disaster waiting to happen to me.

classicsnoot 13y ago

So... Lots of funny, if misinformed comments. To lead off, I am no pig. I have lots and lots of experience with them, I am related to a couple, and I have been very intensely monitoring them for quite some time. I am confident in my assessments and assertions, but they remain only that. What's more, I consider the majority of pigs undertrained, weak minded sheep. I also use the term "pig", instead of the harsher terms they tend to deserve. All of this adds up to a massive bias on my part, so do not forget that when you are typing your pro-pig hell rant. Most US police forces lack the discipline and capability to field a Special Weapons And Tactics team. Instead, they have Volunteers. These are regular beat cops who sat through a few training courses and maybe ran a few smash and grab walk troughs at some point. They keep a flack vest, helmet and carbine AR in their trunk. Most SWAT calls are just beat pigs dealing with something over there head, which can be anything from a person who knows their rights to an actuall increased threat scenario. Real SWAT teams are the picture of tactical efficiency and reserve. Most footage [i completely discount all cinematic SWAT silliness] you will see has yelling and gun pointing and one cute video of a fat, crazy drunk getting zipped up by a SWAT bro with an MP5 [never take a breech loader to an automatic fight]. This discounts all of the rigorous training, both physical and mental, that these operators go through in the short window they are allowed to be in an actual SWAT team. I cannot vouchsafe the conduct of all SWAT, but my anecdotal experience was awesome. I will leave off most the detail, but here is my short story. This was the first time I interacted with SWAT. It will not be the last, I fear. I was in a place I probably should have avoided, when I decided to step out for a jack. I was laughing at a lame joke my friends girlfriend had made [i was/am that guy] as I opened the front door. When I swung my head forward, I was greeted by 6 or 7 homeboys in black tac gear. They were setting to take the door. The point man [guy in front] leveled his hellasweet HK USP .45 at my face and politely asked me to, "please hold the door". I remember being able to see down the barrel of his shooter. He had one in the chamber. I graciously swung the door wide and bowed fairly low, like some drug addled varlet. Point guys swept by as number 2 gently spun me and zip tied my wrists. He kind of whispered "don't be stupid". I do not know what he meant, but I had been a military sycophant for a long time so I knew the drill and sank to my knees. They were done in seconds. 2 of them helped me up gently and ushered me to the couch. They left quietly and broke nothing. I cannot say the same for the overweight, callous detectives that spent 4+ hours figuring out that they had taken a house with no evidence and only one of their targeted suspects [he was released because he had no ID on him]? I have had many experiences with many levels of LEO and none has ever instilled the respect and admiration I have for a true SWAT team. No constables. No kings. Self police is self rule.