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So it seems you are better off working in a profession with a very clear quantifiable performance metrics. Software development is not one of them unless you wo

So it seems you are better off working in a profession with a very clear quantifiable performance metrics. Software development is not one of them unless you work for your own company. I am curious about making a list of professions that have quantifiable performance metrics. 1.Sales and Marketing 2.SEO 3.Bloggers 4 ..

JDulin 13y ago
As always, there's an old and insightful pg essay on these economics: http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html The trivial conclusion is that starting your own company is how to be accurately rewarded for your work. But that assumes there's no way to better measure employee performance. It seems like measuring it for engineers and programmers is an impossibly hard problem (At least, that's implied from all of the well-run organizations that have given up or failed miserably on quantizing performance over the years.). However, I would like to see some creative attempts at making teams better at this.
- 31reasons 13y ago
  I am sure if there was profit to be made from these kind of performance metrics for Programming, you would see entire industry spring up to solve that problem.
- dclowd9901 13y ago
  It's not a hard problem at all. We just need a way to measure code against the money it generates/loses. This should actually be a relatively trivial problem to solve. We have static analyzers, funneling metrics and code coverage tools; this just seems like an extension of that.
- philwelch 13y ago
  We're talking about risk/reward tradeoffs a lot in this thread. Doing a startup vs. working as an employee is one of these tradeoffs. If you do a startup you'll get paid closer to what you're actually worth, but maybe you don't generate any real wealth and go bust and get paid zero. If you're an employee, you get to hedge that risk against taking a small fraction of the wealth you generate.
  - jsh7 13y ago
    For a Wall Street trader on the other hand, this tradeoff seems to not exist.
    - philwelch 13y ago
      It does if you trade your own money, and I'm sure that's more lucrative than working as a trader, but it's easier to measure a trader's output I imagine.
patio11 13y ago
You can use software development to achieve very quantifiable results for companies. If you do, there are a variety of ways to turn that into what you want out of life. One avenue of many is hanging out your shingle as a consultant and charging what your empirical results suggest you can get away with. (I've been beating this drum on HN for a few years. The PG essay on wealth, linked in a sibling comment, is probably the single most instrumentally useful thing I've ever read on HN.) Sales: the highest paid people at an enterprise software company, excluding people who joined really early and have stock grants to match, are the commissioned sales force. I met a gentleman who doesn't speak Japanese who nonetheless was I Can't Believe He's Not Tony Stark's #2 sales rep in Japan. Let me throw out a number for sales picked out of the ether: $50 million in a year. Let me throw out a second number, picked from the industry: 6% commission rate. SEO: Most of the really good ones work for themselves rather than working at an agency or an in-house SEO team. I am friends with a couple of them. One once lamented his lack of programming skill, said that I was the most talented marketer among people with programming skill he knew, and made me this proposition: "You would be a very, very effective black hat. I'll stake you with a million. You pay me half of what you make." (I didn't take him up on it.) Bloggers: The overwhelming majority make nothing. Then again, most are not running businesses. There are some businesses which have a blog as one portion of the business which are Quite Lucrative Indeed. One I'm aware of has revenue roughly equivalent to an enterprise software company with a few dozen employees. (Again, though, the blog is a small portion of that business, even though readers might not know that.)
- 31reasons 13y ago
  Thanks Patrick! >>You can use software development to achieve very quantifiable results for companies. Can you direct me to books / resources to understand more in depth what you are talking about here. I have read what you are saying many times but never quite get it. I am struggling to understand why would someone want to pay me % of their profit when they can hire some programmer for $50/hour. Is it about how you present yourself to the client s or types of clients you go after ? I am working as a freelancer and all I am getting is very budget sensitive clients who doesn't want to pay more than their cleaning maid.

JDulin 13y ago

As always, there's an old and insightful pg essay on these economics: http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html The trivial conclusion is that starting your own company is how to be accurately rewarded for your work. But that assumes there's no way to better measure employee performance. It seems like measuring it for engineers and programmers is an impossibly hard problem (At least, that's implied from all of the well-run organizations that have given up or failed miserably on quantizing performance over the years.). However, I would like to see some creative attempts at making teams better at this.

31reasons 13y ago
I am sure if there was profit to be made from these kind of performance metrics for Programming, you would see entire industry spring up to solve that problem.
dclowd9901 13y ago
It's not a hard problem at all. We just need a way to measure code against the money it generates/loses. This should actually be a relatively trivial problem to solve. We have static analyzers, funneling metrics and code coverage tools; this just seems like an extension of that.
philwelch 13y ago
We're talking about risk/reward tradeoffs a lot in this thread. Doing a startup vs. working as an employee is one of these tradeoffs. If you do a startup you'll get paid closer to what you're actually worth, but maybe you don't generate any real wealth and go bust and get paid zero. If you're an employee, you get to hedge that risk against taking a small fraction of the wealth you generate.
- jsh7 13y ago
  For a Wall Street trader on the other hand, this tradeoff seems to not exist.
  - philwelch 13y ago
    It does if you trade your own money, and I'm sure that's more lucrative than working as a trader, but it's easier to measure a trader's output I imagine.

patio11 13y ago

You can use software development to achieve very quantifiable results for companies. If you do, there are a variety of ways to turn that into what you want out of life. One avenue of many is hanging out your shingle as a consultant and charging what your empirical results suggest you can get away with. (I've been beating this drum on HN for a few years. The PG essay on wealth, linked in a sibling comment, is probably the single most instrumentally useful thing I've ever read on HN.) Sales: the highest paid people at an enterprise software company, excluding people who joined really early and have stock grants to match, are the commissioned sales force. I met a gentleman who doesn't speak Japanese who nonetheless was I Can't Believe He's Not Tony Stark's #2 sales rep in Japan. Let me throw out a number for sales picked out of the ether: $50 million in a year. Let me throw out a second number, picked from the industry: 6% commission rate. SEO: Most of the really good ones work for themselves rather than working at an agency or an in-house SEO team. I am friends with a couple of them. One once lamented his lack of programming skill, said that I was the most talented marketer among people with programming skill he knew, and made me this proposition: "You would be a very, very effective black hat. I'll stake you with a million. You pay me half of what you make." (I didn't take him up on it.) Bloggers: The overwhelming majority make nothing. Then again, most are not running businesses. There are some businesses which have a blog as one portion of the business which are Quite Lucrative Indeed. One I'm aware of has revenue roughly equivalent to an enterprise software company with a few dozen employees. (Again, though, the blog is a small portion of that business, even though readers might not know that.)

31reasons 13y ago
Thanks Patrick! >>You can use software development to achieve very quantifiable results for companies. Can you direct me to books / resources to understand more in depth what you are talking about here. I have read what you are saying many times but never quite get it. I am struggling to understand why would someone want to pay me % of their profit when they can hire some programmer for $50/hour. Is it about how you present yourself to the client s or types of clients you go after ? I am working as a freelancer and all I am getting is very budget sensitive clients who doesn't want to pay more than their cleaning maid.