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Why do we even need to ask what happens when the poor receive a stipend? Go look in the inner cities. Go to the rural communities and find a trailer park. It's

Why do we even need to ask what happens when the poor receive a stipend? Go look in the inner cities. Go to the rural communities and find a trailer park. It's happening now. What has the result been?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
paperwork 13y ago
Not clear what you mean by "It's happening now." What's happening?
- bluedevil2k 13y ago
  Welfare, food stamps, Social Security disability
  - rtpg 13y ago
    Those are not nearly enough for someone to exist out of the pit of despair. Obviously someone against these services will probably think it's too much. Welcome to politics
  - danudey 13y ago
    Those three programs are, in most cases, barely enough to live on, especially not to live comfortably. Even if you make good choices, being on welfare and food stamps still provides you almost no opportunities other than getting as many minimum-wage jobs as you can. You're talking about programs designed essentially to keep people alive and nothing more; to prolong life for its own sake. Minimum income is a way of ensuring that people can remove the stress and worry of being constantly broke and hungry so that they can focus on bettering their lives - going to school, choosing a good job, being able to afford a car, feeding their kids proper meals, and so on. There is no comparison between the minimum subsistence that welfare provides and the programs that are being discussed here.
    - frogpelt 13y ago
      Food: The SNAP program spent $76.4 billion in 2013. The maximum amount that a family of 4 can receive is $632/month. Other: The TANF program spent $33.3 billion in 2013. Maximum benefit for family of 3 in California is $702/month. Housing: Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher Program spends somewhere around $17 billion per year to provide housing. The maximum voucher that can be received is $2,200/month. Education: K-12 Public schools are free with free lunches for the poor. Depends on the neighborhood how good the education is. Pell Grant: The program was appropriated ~$36 billion to award in 2011. Most recent maximum benefit per year was $5,645. Max number of years is six. 6 x $5,645 = $33,870. In addition, to these benefits if a family does earn an income low enough to qualify for these benefits another benefit is not having to pay taxes. There is a 10% tax on the lowest bracket but it is returned in credits and deductions thus moving the effective tax rate to zero and if the W-4 is adjusted the taxes that will be taken out are almost nil. If a family received half of the max for each of the items above they could for five years receive ~$1700/month plus Pell Grant money to go to college. After 5 years, TANF is no longer available.
    - goggles99 13y ago
      >Those three programs are, in most cases, barely enough to live on, especially not to live comfortably. So was the stipend in this story. 6k per year, then later 8k? who could live on this
  - jfarmer 13y ago
    How many people do you know personally who rely on those things to survive? I don't mean people you've met, but people you've grown up with, friends, family, schoolmate, etc. — that sort of thing. For example, can you name three people you know who have applied for social security disability? How likely is it they'll qualify for it? How long does the process typically take? Who do they have to convince and how?
    - bluedino 13y ago
      Apply 3 times and you get it (disability). The amount of people on disability has exploded in the last 15-20 years. http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/ http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
- notdrunkatall 13y ago
  Dependence. Turns out that when you incentivize something, you get more of it. Who knew?
brenschluss 13y ago
In what conceivable way do the people in a trailer park in a rural community receive a stipend? Your argument is incoherent and lacks a supporting argument.
- pmorici 13y ago
  There is a lot of reporting out there about how in poor rural communities there are doctors who basically give out diagnosis for disability or mental illness on less than factual medical grounds that qualify people to receive government benefits from, for example, the Social Security disability fund. The OP is asking what the difference between the thinly veiled fraud that is going on now is and giving a stipend when the net effect is that these people are receiving regular payments from the government. Edit: NPR did a story on it, it isn't my assertion there is actual evidence that this happens; http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/ http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
  - ubernostrum 13y ago
    So, bootstrappy and savvy entrepreneurs disrupting the established system to their advantage? Because when a business skirts or even outright commits fraud against/tramples on regulations, HN tends to cheer about how the regulations had it coming. And what you are asserting happens is no different.
    - DigitalJack 13y ago
      The point is it doesn't work anyway.
    - epmatsw 13y ago
      Generally when HN cheers someone skirting regulations, it's because the person/company is doing so to produce something of value rather than to avoid having to work.
      - Qworg 13y ago
        Actually, if you read more articles about the doctors putting people on disability, it is far more nuanced. When there are no jobs in the area, you don't have an education, and you don't have enough money to move, what option do you have? There are places in Alabama where 3/4 if the population is on disability; this is not because they are disabled, but because they have no other choice.
erikpukinskis 13y ago
You seem to have an overinflated estimate of how many people are able to qualify for cash stipends from the U.S government.
jusben1369 13y ago
Oh my. You do realize that "giving a stipend" is not a Yes or No thing right? It's the size and type? "I have no idea why the man died under my care. I fed him 100 grains of rice every single day for the last year"
streetnigga 13y ago
I agree, we should cut tax incentives and rebates to massive corporations. The need to stop enabling them is imperative.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

paperwork 13y ago

Not clear what you mean by "It's happening now." What's happening?

bluedevil2k 13y ago
Welfare, food stamps, Social Security disability
- rtpg 13y ago
  Those are not nearly enough for someone to exist out of the pit of despair. Obviously someone against these services will probably think it's too much. Welcome to politics
- danudey 13y ago
  Those three programs are, in most cases, barely enough to live on, especially not to live comfortably. Even if you make good choices, being on welfare and food stamps still provides you almost no opportunities other than getting as many minimum-wage jobs as you can. You're talking about programs designed essentially to keep people alive and nothing more; to prolong life for its own sake. Minimum income is a way of ensuring that people can remove the stress and worry of being constantly broke and hungry so that they can focus on bettering their lives - going to school, choosing a good job, being able to afford a car, feeding their kids proper meals, and so on. There is no comparison between the minimum subsistence that welfare provides and the programs that are being discussed here.
  - frogpelt 13y ago
    Food: The SNAP program spent $76.4 billion in 2013. The maximum amount that a family of 4 can receive is $632/month. Other: The TANF program spent $33.3 billion in 2013. Maximum benefit for family of 3 in California is $702/month. Housing: Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher Program spends somewhere around $17 billion per year to provide housing. The maximum voucher that can be received is $2,200/month. Education: K-12 Public schools are free with free lunches for the poor. Depends on the neighborhood how good the education is. Pell Grant: The program was appropriated ~$36 billion to award in 2011. Most recent maximum benefit per year was $5,645. Max number of years is six. 6 x $5,645 = $33,870. In addition, to these benefits if a family does earn an income low enough to qualify for these benefits another benefit is not having to pay taxes. There is a 10% tax on the lowest bracket but it is returned in credits and deductions thus moving the effective tax rate to zero and if the W-4 is adjusted the taxes that will be taken out are almost nil. If a family received half of the max for each of the items above they could for five years receive ~$1700/month plus Pell Grant money to go to college. After 5 years, TANF is no longer available.
  - goggles99 13y ago
    >Those three programs are, in most cases, barely enough to live on, especially not to live comfortably. So was the stipend in this story. 6k per year, then later 8k? who could live on this
- jfarmer 13y ago
  How many people do you know personally who rely on those things to survive? I don't mean people you've met, but people you've grown up with, friends, family, schoolmate, etc. — that sort of thing. For example, can you name three people you know who have applied for social security disability? How likely is it they'll qualify for it? How long does the process typically take? Who do they have to convince and how?
  - bluedino 13y ago
    Apply 3 times and you get it (disability). The amount of people on disability has exploded in the last 15-20 years. http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/ http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
notdrunkatall 13y ago
Dependence. Turns out that when you incentivize something, you get more of it. Who knew?

brenschluss 13y ago

In what conceivable way do the people in a trailer park in a rural community receive a stipend? Your argument is incoherent and lacks a supporting argument.

pmorici 13y ago
There is a lot of reporting out there about how in poor rural communities there are doctors who basically give out diagnosis for disability or mental illness on less than factual medical grounds that qualify people to receive government benefits from, for example, the Social Security disability fund. The OP is asking what the difference between the thinly veiled fraud that is going on now is and giving a stipend when the net effect is that these people are receiving regular payments from the government. Edit: NPR did a story on it, it isn't my assertion there is actual evidence that this happens; http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/ http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/
- ubernostrum 13y ago
  So, bootstrappy and savvy entrepreneurs disrupting the established system to their advantage? Because when a business skirts or even outright commits fraud against/tramples on regulations, HN tends to cheer about how the regulations had it coming. And what you are asserting happens is no different.
  - DigitalJack 13y ago
    The point is it doesn't work anyway.
  - epmatsw 13y ago
    Generally when HN cheers someone skirting regulations, it's because the person/company is doing so to produce something of value rather than to avoid having to work.
    - Qworg 13y ago
      Actually, if you read more articles about the doctors putting people on disability, it is far more nuanced. When there are no jobs in the area, you don't have an education, and you don't have enough money to move, what option do you have? There are places in Alabama where 3/4 if the population is on disability; this is not because they are disabled, but because they have no other choice.

erikpukinskis 13y ago

You seem to have an overinflated estimate of how many people are able to qualify for cash stipends from the U.S government.

jusben1369 13y ago

Oh my. You do realize that "giving a stipend" is not a Yes or No thing right? It's the size and type? "I have no idea why the man died under my care. I fed him 100 grains of rice every single day for the last year"

streetnigga 13y ago

I agree, we should cut tax incentives and rebates to massive corporations. The need to stop enabling them is imperative.