6 ms·

Obama's NSA speech reflects American apathy

60 points by pierre-renaux 13y ago

f_salmon 13y ago
And most of all, I can't believe he didn't just burst into endless laughs during his speech. I mean, did he really just say all that while NOT thinking "y'all some stupid mofos"? Seriously. How can anyone take the US serious anymore.
- xradionut 13y ago
  It's not stupidity for everyone, it's just that every recourse outside of violence has been captured or gamed by those truly in power in the US. Plus the media has been captured 99.9999 percent. And it's not bad enough for the US public to support violence, plus violence would be futile anyway against the military, no matter the number of private firearms. The elite are just waiting for enough automation in society so they can "cull" the masses they consider worthless.
  - kiba 13y ago
    It's not stupidity for everyone, it's just that every recourse outside of violence has been captured or gamed by those truly in power in the US. As opposed to their elected officials telling and giving them what they want to hear? Circus and breads are not empty words, you know. Plus the media has been captured 99.9999 percent. As opposed to the media reflecting what the people want to hear?
deletes 13y ago
Didn't find any link at the site. Here is the speech( I think it is the one the article is referring to): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4MKm2uFqVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4MKm2uFqVQ
coldcode 13y ago
Not so much apathy but a lack of any way to change things. We get exactly two choices and both suck (in slightly different ways) plus media that tries to play up differences than don't make any difference. No one wants a revolution which these days is generally an exercise in self destruction. So what can you do to create change? The politicians like Obama know this only too well, the system is designed and supported to make real change unlikely or even impossible. For all we will ever know both parties collude to keep the system in place.
- pstack 13y ago
  Even if many people felt they could actively do something about it, they are in direct opposition to all of the people who mindlessly undermine their country by spouting rhetoric like "well, we have to give up some privacy if we want to be safe" and have convinced themselves that the government has done nothing against any American and are only interested in "bad guys" (despite the countless documented cases of the government spying on girlfriends, attractive strangers, blackmailing politicians, activists, etc). There are so many hurdles, well beyond apathy. If there were real meaningful action anyone could take, they would also face the threat of a government that attacks those who criticize it. If that weren't an issue, you would still have to contend not with the apathetic, but with those who enthusiastically accept and promote what is being done in some bizarre sense of self-preservation from a big scary world, because they're deathly afraid that some evil underwear bomber is going to blow them up next time they're on vacation to grandma's house.
- notdrunkatall 13y ago
  The withering of mechanisms to effect change follows directly from apathy. Conversely, those mechanisms flourish with the existence of an engaged, informed citizenry. We have no one to blame for the current state of affairs but ourselves. To attempt to pin the blame on anything else is to fail to accept that responsibility, which is tantamount to failing to recognizing the problem. And of course, if we fail to recognize the problem, nothing will ever change.
  - kiba 13y ago
    Conversely, those mechanisms flourish with the existence of an engaged, informed citizenry. Which is quite impossible to build if you have to struggle for your daily bread or pay your mortgage. Even when you're idle, you're most likely arguing against or for abortion and other bikeshedding issue instead of focusing on important issues.
    - notdrunkatall 13y ago
      Excuses. Everyone has nothing but excuses.
transfire 13y ago
We are apathetic, b/c we are tired. It doesn't seem to matter how much we complain or protest anymore, most issues only seem get worse. Fact is, there is almost no accountability to the people any longer. And the powers that be know it. Worse, they have the general population divided so strongly between right and left that it almost seems like a civil war is on the verge of breaking out. Again, the powers that be know it --they actually encourage it so they can use it to do whatever they want. How much longer can we go on this way? I'm half a mind to say we just end the charade, dissolve the federal government and replace it with a simple joint economic and security treaty between the states.
- kiba 13y ago
  Fact is, there is almost no accountability to the people any longer. And the powers that be know it. So the voters are in fact, weaker than the lobbyists? Didn't the internet defeat SOPA through a large coordinated campaign?
  - anon1385 13y ago
    >Didn't the internet defeat SOPA through a large coordinated campaign? No, a bunch of super wealthy individuals and corporations did because their financial interests were threatened.
- thisiswrong 13y ago
  >We are apathetic, b/c we are tired. No. Americans are apathetic because they are one of the most brainwashed peoples of the planet [1], perhaps after North Koreans. There are exceptions to this and some few Americans are very enlightened indeed. >They have the general population divided so strongly between right and left that it almost seems like a civil war is on the verge of breaking out. Yes - divide and rule. Think Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Nigeria(...). The same sociopaths that run US politics, own the banks, and energy giants have always thrived by creating inner conflicts within exploitable countries [2]. Meanwhile the people fight themselves instead of pushing out the imperialists. Those that run the USA are clearly preparing for an internal civil war [3]. How it will happen and when - who knows. But i can sure tell you that the amount of US flags behind Obama in his most recent NSA speech was alarming and resembled some Nazi era nationalist/fascist appeal. Scary. [1] http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/26/1182220/-Research-Study-Explains-How-U-S-Media-Brainwashes-The-Public http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/26/1182220/-Research-S... [2] http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-imperialism-and-iraqs-descent-into-civil-war/5364322 http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-imperialism-and-iraqs-descen... [3] http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/06/homeland-security-preparing-for-massive-civil-war/ http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/06/homeland-security-pr...
MisterWebz 13y ago
The Europeans care just as much or even less than the Americans. They're being told that there are no privacy protections in place for foreigners, yet, as far as I'm aware, there has been no significant decrease in Facebook or Google traffic. If the tech giants were genuinely fearing loss of customers or users, Obama's NSA speech would have been drastically different.
rwmj 13y ago
Hang on, 48% support it and 47% are against it, and that represents apathy? There was an interview on Radio 4 a few days ago (can't find it right now, still looking) where the head of the UK committee which oversees GCHQ tried an interesting approach. He didn't defend GCHQ at all, but said that basically no one in the UK really cared about this issue so we should do nothing. The strategy seems to be to atomize the opposition (it "happens on the internet" therefore it's not real or quantifiable), ie. divide and conquer.
vectorsys 13y ago
There's also the fact that liberals - the ideological faction most likely to protest these programs - have been reluctant to criticise a president from their own party. That's not true, but not surprising coming from the bbc. The BBC needs to differentiate between leftists and liberals. Leftist regimes throughout history have always been for surveillance. Surveillance isn't just tapping lines. It's also forced government mandates of the individual that are effective in knowing what you're up to.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
ck2 13y ago
Speech summary: If you like your privacy, you can keep it.
ivanca 13y ago
This "apathy" will bring consequences far worst than the spying itself; before long corporations will be able to trade and black mail using the information collected by NSA. Call me tinfoil hat or whatever, but corporations always grab as much power as they are allowed (heck! many have been affiliated with paramilitary groups), so it will be just a natural step when american corporations start blackmailing and racketing international politicians in order to force the approval of laws on their behalf. Plus all the other benefits that a mass surveillance can bring: Learning secrets from the international competition, learning about deals before they happen (some kind of insider trading far worse than anything we have seen so far)

60 points by pierre-renaux 13y ago

And most of all, I can't believe he didn't just burst into endless laughs during his speech. I mean, did he really just say all that while NOT thinking "y'all some stupid mofos"? Seriously. How can anyone take the US serious anymore.

xradionut 13y ago
It's not stupidity for everyone, it's just that every recourse outside of violence has been captured or gamed by those truly in power in the US. Plus the media has been captured 99.9999 percent. And it's not bad enough for the US public to support violence, plus violence would be futile anyway against the military, no matter the number of private firearms. The elite are just waiting for enough automation in society so they can "cull" the masses they consider worthless.
- kiba 13y ago
  It's not stupidity for everyone, it's just that every recourse outside of violence has been captured or gamed by those truly in power in the US. As opposed to their elected officials telling and giving them what they want to hear? Circus and breads are not empty words, you know. Plus the media has been captured 99.9999 percent. As opposed to the media reflecting what the people want to hear?

deletes 13y ago

Didn't find any link at the site. Here is the speech( I think it is the one the article is referring to): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4MKm2uFqVQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4MKm2uFqVQ

coldcode 13y ago

Not so much apathy but a lack of any way to change things. We get exactly two choices and both suck (in slightly different ways) plus media that tries to play up differences than don't make any difference. No one wants a revolution which these days is generally an exercise in self destruction. So what can you do to create change? The politicians like Obama know this only too well, the system is designed and supported to make real change unlikely or even impossible. For all we will ever know both parties collude to keep the system in place.

pstack 13y ago
Even if many people felt they could actively do something about it, they are in direct opposition to all of the people who mindlessly undermine their country by spouting rhetoric like "well, we have to give up some privacy if we want to be safe" and have convinced themselves that the government has done nothing against any American and are only interested in "bad guys" (despite the countless documented cases of the government spying on girlfriends, attractive strangers, blackmailing politicians, activists, etc). There are so many hurdles, well beyond apathy. If there were real meaningful action anyone could take, they would also face the threat of a government that attacks those who criticize it. If that weren't an issue, you would still have to contend not with the apathetic, but with those who enthusiastically accept and promote what is being done in some bizarre sense of self-preservation from a big scary world, because they're deathly afraid that some evil underwear bomber is going to blow them up next time they're on vacation to grandma's house.
notdrunkatall 13y ago
The withering of mechanisms to effect change follows directly from apathy. Conversely, those mechanisms flourish with the existence of an engaged, informed citizenry. We have no one to blame for the current state of affairs but ourselves. To attempt to pin the blame on anything else is to fail to accept that responsibility, which is tantamount to failing to recognizing the problem. And of course, if we fail to recognize the problem, nothing will ever change.
- kiba 13y ago
  Conversely, those mechanisms flourish with the existence of an engaged, informed citizenry. Which is quite impossible to build if you have to struggle for your daily bread or pay your mortgage. Even when you're idle, you're most likely arguing against or for abortion and other bikeshedding issue instead of focusing on important issues.
  - notdrunkatall 13y ago
    Excuses. Everyone has nothing but excuses.

transfire 13y ago

We are apathetic, b/c we are tired. It doesn't seem to matter how much we complain or protest anymore, most issues only seem get worse. Fact is, there is almost no accountability to the people any longer. And the powers that be know it. Worse, they have the general population divided so strongly between right and left that it almost seems like a civil war is on the verge of breaking out. Again, the powers that be know it --they actually encourage it so they can use it to do whatever they want. How much longer can we go on this way? I'm half a mind to say we just end the charade, dissolve the federal government and replace it with a simple joint economic and security treaty between the states.

kiba 13y ago
Fact is, there is almost no accountability to the people any longer. And the powers that be know it. So the voters are in fact, weaker than the lobbyists? Didn't the internet defeat SOPA through a large coordinated campaign?
- anon1385 13y ago
  >Didn't the internet defeat SOPA through a large coordinated campaign? No, a bunch of super wealthy individuals and corporations did because their financial interests were threatened.
thisiswrong 13y ago
>We are apathetic, b/c we are tired. No. Americans are apathetic because they are one of the most brainwashed peoples of the planet [1], perhaps after North Koreans. There are exceptions to this and some few Americans are very enlightened indeed. >They have the general population divided so strongly between right and left that it almost seems like a civil war is on the verge of breaking out. Yes - divide and rule. Think Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Nigeria(...). The same sociopaths that run US politics, own the banks, and energy giants have always thrived by creating inner conflicts within exploitable countries [2]. Meanwhile the people fight themselves instead of pushing out the imperialists. Those that run the USA are clearly preparing for an internal civil war [3]. How it will happen and when - who knows. But i can sure tell you that the amount of US flags behind Obama in his most recent NSA speech was alarming and resembled some Nazi era nationalist/fascist appeal. Scary. [1] http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/26/1182220/-Research-Study-Explains-How-U-S-Media-Brainwashes-The-Public http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/01/26/1182220/-Research-S... [2] http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-imperialism-and-iraqs-descent-into-civil-war/5364322 http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-imperialism-and-iraqs-descen... [3] http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/06/homeland-security-preparing-for-massive-civil-war/ http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/06/homeland-security-pr...

MisterWebz 13y ago

The Europeans care just as much or even less than the Americans. They're being told that there are no privacy protections in place for foreigners, yet, as far as I'm aware, there has been no significant decrease in Facebook or Google traffic. If the tech giants were genuinely fearing loss of customers or users, Obama's NSA speech would have been drastically different.

rwmj 13y ago

Hang on, 48% support it and 47% are against it, and that represents apathy? There was an interview on Radio 4 a few days ago (can't find it right now, still looking) where the head of the UK committee which oversees GCHQ tried an interesting approach. He didn't defend GCHQ at all, but said that basically no one in the UK really cared about this issue so we should do nothing. The strategy seems to be to atomize the opposition (it "happens on the internet" therefore it's not real or quantifiable), ie. divide and conquer.

vectorsys 13y ago

There's also the fact that liberals - the ideological faction most likely to protest these programs - have been reluctant to criticise a president from their own party. That's not true, but not surprising coming from the bbc. The BBC needs to differentiate between leftists and liberals. Leftist regimes throughout history have always been for surveillance. Surveillance isn't just tapping lines. It's also forced government mandates of the individual that are effective in knowing what you're up to.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

ck2 13y ago

Speech summary: If you like your privacy, you can keep it.

ivanca 13y ago

This "apathy" will bring consequences far worst than the spying itself; before long corporations will be able to trade and black mail using the information collected by NSA. Call me tinfoil hat or whatever, but corporations always grab as much power as they are allowed (heck! many have been affiliated with paramilitary groups), so it will be just a natural step when american corporations start blackmailing and racketing international politicians in order to force the approval of laws on their behalf. Plus all the other benefits that a mass surveillance can bring: Learning secrets from the international competition, learning about deals before they happen (some kind of insider trading far worse than anything we have seen so far)