5 ms·

> Danish university students tend not to have the same weird adversarial relationship with higher education My general impression is that Europeans pay a lot l

> Danish university students tend not to have the same weird adversarial relationship with higher education My general impression is that Europeans pay a lot less for their higher education. I suspect that matters a lot.

pilooch 13y ago
Yes and this generates other tensions: those who fail the almost free higher education are totally left behind, with almost nochance to catch up (statistically speaking).
- _delirium 13y ago
  That doesn't seem true in Denmark, at least. First, even minimum-wage jobs with no education requirements will pay a living wage (minimum wage is about $37,500/yr, plus benefits and 5 weeks vacation). So, economically speaking, people with no education are not that far behind, nothing like American minimum-wage workers. And second, going back to university as an adult is pretty common.
teejae 13y ago
Do not underestimate the price of taxes to pay for said education. It probably all comes out about the same. This assumes you also work and pay taxes to the entity that provided your education.
- DasIch 13y ago
  Not for an individual as not everyone has the necessary qualifications to study at a university but nevertheless everyone has to pay taxes that finance the education of those that do.
  - yodsanklai 13y ago
    Well, not everyone pays the same amount of tax. People that studied at university probably pays more tax on average that those that didn't. You can also argue that everybody benefits from living in an educated society, even if they didn't study themselves.
- vellum 13y ago
  It's not close to the same. If you divide (public:private expenditures on tertiary education as % of GDP) by (tax rate as % of GDP), it's .029 : .005 for France, but in the US, it's .042 : .067. http://statlinks.oecdcode.org/962012031P1G060.XLS http://statlinks.oecdcode.org/962012031P1G060.XLS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenu...
vellum 13y ago
They do. Here's a chart that compares annual tuition fees at public schools circa 2008: http://imgur.com/EIeOUQJ http://imgur.com/EIeOUQJ US tuition was around $6000+, while most of the other Euro countries were well below $2000, with the exception of the UK at ~$4800. source: http://www.oecd.org/edu/skills-beyond-school/48631028.pdf http://www.oecd.org/edu/skills-beyond-school/48631028.pdf
- jamessb 13y ago
  Note that UK fees tripled for academic year 2012-13, becoming £9,000 (almost $15,000) per year.
  - LaurensBER 13y ago
    Do you happen to know why they did this? It seems very unfair to "tax" young people 60,000k. I understand that the UK is also in a crisis and that costs have to be reduced. Income has to be raised but with the job market as it is and an pension system that is unfair for young people this increase seems to be very harsh and unfair.
    - Nursie 13y ago
      15 (or so) years ago a university education was free here in the UK. A lot of students were even given grant money to live on (depending on parental income). Then the supposedly left-wing Labour party introduced fees and loans as a replacement, supposedly because they wanted to encourage more people to go to university but they couldn't afford to keep it free if that happened. Every few years someone decides to put the fees up. The government don't directly put the fees up, but effectively do by loosening the rules about what can be charged. Frankly it's a disgrace. We now have hoards of people with worthless degrees (Retail Management? Really?) and massive debts for all of them.
    - pjc50 13y ago
      There is a very strong push from the right in the UK towards a US-style privatized system. The way the student loan repayments work over a lifetime, this is effectively a 5-10% income tax on middle income people with degrees, but without generating headlines about putting up income tax.

pilooch 13y ago

Yes and this generates other tensions: those who fail the almost free higher education are totally left behind, with almost nochance to catch up (statistically speaking).

_delirium 13y ago
That doesn't seem true in Denmark, at least. First, even minimum-wage jobs with no education requirements will pay a living wage (minimum wage is about $37,500/yr, plus benefits and 5 weeks vacation). So, economically speaking, people with no education are not that far behind, nothing like American minimum-wage workers. And second, going back to university as an adult is pretty common.

teejae 13y ago

Do not underestimate the price of taxes to pay for said education. It probably all comes out about the same. This assumes you also work and pay taxes to the entity that provided your education.

DasIch 13y ago
Not for an individual as not everyone has the necessary qualifications to study at a university but nevertheless everyone has to pay taxes that finance the education of those that do.
- yodsanklai 13y ago
  Well, not everyone pays the same amount of tax. People that studied at university probably pays more tax on average that those that didn't. You can also argue that everybody benefits from living in an educated society, even if they didn't study themselves.
vellum 13y ago
It's not close to the same. If you divide (public:private expenditures on tertiary education as % of GDP) by (tax rate as % of GDP), it's .029 : .005 for France, but in the US, it's .042 : .067. http://statlinks.oecdcode.org/962012031P1G060.XLS http://statlinks.oecdcode.org/962012031P1G060.XLS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenu...

vellum 13y ago

They do. Here's a chart that compares annual tuition fees at public schools circa 2008: http://imgur.com/EIeOUQJ http://imgur.com/EIeOUQJ US tuition was around $6000+, while most of the other Euro countries were well below $2000, with the exception of the UK at ~$4800. source: http://www.oecd.org/edu/skills-beyond-school/48631028.pdf http://www.oecd.org/edu/skills-beyond-school/48631028.pdf

jamessb 13y ago
Note that UK fees tripled for academic year 2012-13, becoming £9,000 (almost $15,000) per year.
- LaurensBER 13y ago
  Do you happen to know why they did this? It seems very unfair to "tax" young people 60,000k. I understand that the UK is also in a crisis and that costs have to be reduced. Income has to be raised but with the job market as it is and an pension system that is unfair for young people this increase seems to be very harsh and unfair.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    15 (or so) years ago a university education was free here in the UK. A lot of students were even given grant money to live on (depending on parental income). Then the supposedly left-wing Labour party introduced fees and loans as a replacement, supposedly because they wanted to encourage more people to go to university but they couldn't afford to keep it free if that happened. Every few years someone decides to put the fees up. The government don't directly put the fees up, but effectively do by loosening the rules about what can be charged. Frankly it's a disgrace. We now have hoards of people with worthless degrees (Retail Management? Really?) and massive debts for all of them.
  - pjc50 13y ago
    There is a very strong push from the right in the UK towards a US-style privatized system. The way the student loan repayments work over a lifetime, this is effectively a 5-10% income tax on middle income people with degrees, but without generating headlines about putting up income tax.