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One thing to keep in mind about Ukraine, is that over half the country speaks Russian, and are very firmly pro-Russian. Furthermore, the current government was

by Mikeb85 13y ago

One thing to keep in mind about Ukraine, is that over half the country speaks Russian, and are very firmly pro-Russian. Furthermore, the current government was democratically elected (there were even western observers who confirmed the fairness of the most recent elections), after years of in-fighting amongst the 'Orange Revolution' crowd. The protests also happen to be timed ahead of elections, no doubt in part because the pro-West factions were so divided they really had no chance against the Party of Regions (which enjoys widespread support in the eastern parts of the country).

free652 13y ago
I wouldn't say that Russian speaking Ukrainians are "firmly" pro-Russian, I'd say its far from the truth. Where did you get that notion? At least not in Odessa. Most people just want to have better lives. But their lives got worse with every year.
- new_test 13y ago
  I grew up in south eastern Ukraine (as Russian as Ukraine gets). I'm still in touch with some of my childhood friends, and the views are pretty split in my hometown. One friend that I went to school with always posts all kinds of pro-Europe anti-Yanukovich petitions online. At the same time I just received an email from another friend this morning and his opinion is "Those fucking protesters are turning Kiev into shit, good thing we don't have that in our town. We did have some but they got shit thrown at them [literally what he said], so they sit at home now." Basically his opinion is that it's western governments trying to manipulate Ukrainians.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  > I wouldn't say that Russian speaking Ukrainians are "firmly" pro-Russian, I'd say its far from the truth. Maybe not the best wording. While there is no doubt dissatisfaction with political and daily realities, most Ukrainians, certainly all the ones I know, still feel closer culturally to Russia than to the West. Russian-ness and Ukrainian-ness aren't dictated by politics which are continually changing... > Most people just want to have better lives. But their lives got worse with every year. This is an issue in every country. Right now in half of the EU peoples' lives are getting worse (Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, etc...). There are certainly world-wide economic variables at play, but there's also the issue that some pro-West agents try to hold the country hostage every few years... Russia bailed out Ukraine, and pretty much continually props up its economy. Look what the EU did to Greece and Cyprus...
moocowduckquack 13y ago
there were even western observers who confirmed the fairness of the most recent elections Oh really? Summary statement: “Preparations for Ukraine’s parliamentary elections on 28 October are taking place in an environment of procedural irregularities, widespread vote-buying, limitations on freedom of speech, and a lack of effective consideration of election disputes.” Summary statement: “Mission Canada concludes that – taking into account its interim reports, the findings of Election Day, and the subsequent problems in transfer of results and tabulation of data – Ukraine’s parliamentary elections fell short of meeting international standards, and that these elections marked a regression in Ukraine’s democratic development.” http://www.canadem.ca/home/en/deployment/election-observation/mission-canada-2012.html http://www.canadem.ca/home/en/deployment/election-observatio... edit - The link in the comment below is about the elections in 2010. The quotes above are about the elections in 2012. I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine which of those dates is the more recent.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  http://euobserver.com/foreign/29431 http://euobserver.com/foreign/29431 > edit - The link in the comment below is about the elections in 2010. The quotes above are about the elections in 2012. I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine which of those dates is the more recent. Perhaps which is more pertinent to a discussion about Yanukovych's 'dictatorial' ways? Fact is, Yanukovych was elected in elections that were praised by the West - in 2010. In 2012 there were political factors and ideology at play that made it more useful to denounce the elections...
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    Perhaps which is more pertinent to a discussion about Yanukovych's 'dictatorial' ways? The second election, obviously. In the first election he was not in power yet.
    - Mikeb85 13y ago
      The PoR also had the most votes in the 2006 parliamentary elections when Yushchenko was in charge. It's not a far stretch to assume that they may have fairly won in 2012 as well. The point is western observers are quite selective in 'endorsing' certain elections over others. In 2010 they kept quiet because it was plainly obvious that Yanukovych was the winner. Now you have protests (which turned violent at several turns) protesting a democratically elected government, conveniently just before new elections. With tons of Western media coverage again, and again the Western media vilifying Yanukovych and Putin... So convenient.

by Mikeb85 13y ago

free652 13y ago

I wouldn't say that Russian speaking Ukrainians are "firmly" pro-Russian, I'd say its far from the truth. Where did you get that notion? At least not in Odessa. Most people just want to have better lives. But their lives got worse with every year.

new_test 13y ago
I grew up in south eastern Ukraine (as Russian as Ukraine gets). I'm still in touch with some of my childhood friends, and the views are pretty split in my hometown. One friend that I went to school with always posts all kinds of pro-Europe anti-Yanukovich petitions online. At the same time I just received an email from another friend this morning and his opinion is "Those fucking protesters are turning Kiev into shit, good thing we don't have that in our town. We did have some but they got shit thrown at them [literally what he said], so they sit at home now." Basically his opinion is that it's western governments trying to manipulate Ukrainians.
Mikeb85 13y ago
> I wouldn't say that Russian speaking Ukrainians are "firmly" pro-Russian, I'd say its far from the truth. Maybe not the best wording. While there is no doubt dissatisfaction with political and daily realities, most Ukrainians, certainly all the ones I know, still feel closer culturally to Russia than to the West. Russian-ness and Ukrainian-ness aren't dictated by politics which are continually changing... > Most people just want to have better lives. But their lives got worse with every year. This is an issue in every country. Right now in half of the EU peoples' lives are getting worse (Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus, etc...). There are certainly world-wide economic variables at play, but there's also the issue that some pro-West agents try to hold the country hostage every few years... Russia bailed out Ukraine, and pretty much continually props up its economy. Look what the EU did to Greece and Cyprus...

moocowduckquack 13y ago

there were even western observers who confirmed the fairness of the most recent elections Oh really? Summary statement: “Preparations for Ukraine’s parliamentary elections on 28 October are taking place in an environment of procedural irregularities, widespread vote-buying, limitations on freedom of speech, and a lack of effective consideration of election disputes.” Summary statement: “Mission Canada concludes that – taking into account its interim reports, the findings of Election Day, and the subsequent problems in transfer of results and tabulation of data – Ukraine’s parliamentary elections fell short of meeting international standards, and that these elections marked a regression in Ukraine’s democratic development.” http://www.canadem.ca/home/en/deployment/election-observation/mission-canada-2012.html http://www.canadem.ca/home/en/deployment/election-observatio... edit - The link in the comment below is about the elections in 2010. The quotes above are about the elections in 2012. I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine which of those dates is the more recent.

Mikeb85 13y ago
http://euobserver.com/foreign/29431 http://euobserver.com/foreign/29431 > edit - The link in the comment below is about the elections in 2010. The quotes above are about the elections in 2012. I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine which of those dates is the more recent. Perhaps which is more pertinent to a discussion about Yanukovych's 'dictatorial' ways? Fact is, Yanukovych was elected in elections that were praised by the West - in 2010. In 2012 there were political factors and ideology at play that made it more useful to denounce the elections...
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Perhaps which is more pertinent to a discussion about Yanukovych's 'dictatorial' ways? The second election, obviously. In the first election he was not in power yet.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    The PoR also had the most votes in the 2006 parliamentary elections when Yushchenko was in charge. It's not a far stretch to assume that they may have fairly won in 2012 as well. The point is western observers are quite selective in 'endorsing' certain elections over others. In 2010 they kept quiet because it was plainly obvious that Yanukovych was the winner. Now you have protests (which turned violent at several turns) protesting a democratically elected government, conveniently just before new elections. With tons of Western media coverage again, and again the Western media vilifying Yanukovych and Putin... So convenient.