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This makes me happy. I have a house with electric heat and eight thermostats pushing Nest costs into unreasonable territory. I'd love to be able to remotely s

by parfe 13y ago

This makes me happy. I have a house with electric heat and eight thermostats pushing Nest costs into unreasonable territory. I'd love to be able to remotely set all my thermostats to 55 degrees or get certain zones to react based on events fired from my phone, (e.g. coming, leaving, charging with screen off aka sleeping, pending alarm) Unfortunately, with my electric heat the thermostats sit inline with the heater's power source so I need devices that can safely handle 120v.

stephenjudkins 13y ago
It's pretty simple to wire up a 24VAC thermostat to control 120V power. Purchase a transformer [http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-AT140A1000-40Va-120V-Transformer/dp/B000K2EC7K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389987489&sr=8-2&keywords=24vac+transformer http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-AT140A1000-40Va-120V-Transfo...] and a 24VAC relay [http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00097BDUA/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_M3T1_ST1_dp_1 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00097BDUA/ref=pe_385040_30332190_T...], get a junction box, and wire it all together. This doesn't solve your problem of the $250/room cost, but if you'd like to use some other thermostats in your rooms this would work great. The only complaint I'd have about mine is that the relay is very loud. You might want to search for a quieter one.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  There are purpose built combination units: http://www.aubetech.com/products/list.php?noLangue=2&noFamille=3&app=20 http://www.aubetech.com/products/list.php?noLangue=2&noFamil... They apparently pay attention to how loud it is.
jonhohle 13y ago
Not only that, but basic, programmable load bearing thermostats are relatively expensive compared to the typical control line alternatives. However, even with basic programmable thermostats (>=$75 a piece), I saw my electrical bill drop considerably vs. a 30 year old mechanical thermostat in an apartment I lived in the past 4 years. We've moved since then and took the thermostats with us. I still have two if you want to buy some slightly used aube programmables (nothing with wifi, but better than nothing).
jusben1369 13y ago
Why do you have 8 thermostats? Is your house very very large? If true then is the personal cost to you of 8 Nest's really prohibitive?
- j15e 13y ago
  Very common in Europe & Canada
- parfe 13y ago
  Not large at all. One thermostat per room. With electric heat you have to put a thermostat in line between the circuit breakers and the heating element (radiant panels in my case). Centralizing the house on a single thermostat, like you would with forced air, would actually be incredibly difficult. It would also lose the benefit of fine control; one of the few positives of electric heat.
  - aconbere 13y ago
    Worth pointing out (and you touch on this above) that this is not a function of electric heat but a function specifically of the type of electric heat (radiant in this case). I have electric heat by way of a ducted electric heat pump which is not zoned and thus centralized. Zoned ducted and non-ducted electric heat pumps both offer localized control over heating.
    - URSpider94 13y ago
      for what its worth, people in the trades would not consider a heat pump "electric heat", even though of course the power does come from electricity. electric heat refers specifically to heat generated by heating an element with current.
      - aconbere 13y ago
        Fascinating! (coming back to this late). What would the consider an electric heat pump, or what would they call it?
declan 13y ago
Nest thermostats seem to be around $250. If you want thermostats that you can control with Applescript, Perl, mobile apps, etc., check out these Insteon-based ones for $150: http://www.smarthome.com/2441TH/INSTEON-Thermostat/p.aspx http://www.smarthome.com/2441TH/INSTEON-Thermostat/p.aspx One problem with the Nest is that if your thermostat is in a poor location (more of a problem with central heating), the motion sensor won't see you. With the ones I suggested above, you can programmatically link those to ~$40 motion sensors installed in the correct locations that will actually work.
- VLM 13y ago
  I have one of those; it works pretty well. Before the Insteon was released I had a X10 thermostat which was somewhat cheaper. I worked around the "X10 is only 95% reliable" problem by having misterhouse set the temp every 5 minutes or whatever it was. The financial payback time is unfortunately infinite but it was interesting. One advantage of programming an insteon thermostat is its just plain old off the shelf technology to all end users including repair guys, although how its temp is set is magic and done by computer. Most of the software work is already done by the misterhouse system, its not like you have to write your own insteon drivers or write your own sensor drivers or whatever. Misterhouse's support for Insteon has varied a bit over the decades. Last time I had to mess with anything it was a little fuzzy. I would imagine things have advanced considerably in the last half decade or so. I do not currently have misterhouse controlling the insteon thermostat mostly out of lazyness, I'll eventually re-enable it.
george88b 13y ago
I have the exact same situation but I have spoken to Nest Customer Service and other "smart" thermostat CS and all have told me that they will not work with the wiring for electric heaters commonly controlled by a single dedicated mechanical thermostat. I was out of luck so if you find an working "smart" thermostat I would love to get one.

by parfe 13y ago

stephenjudkins 13y ago

It's pretty simple to wire up a 24VAC thermostat to control 120V power. Purchase a transformer [http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-AT140A1000-40Va-120V-Transformer/dp/B000K2EC7K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1389987489&sr=8-2&keywords=24vac+transformer http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-AT140A1000-40Va-120V-Transfo...] and a 24VAC relay [http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00097BDUA/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_M3T1_ST1_dp_1 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00097BDUA/ref=pe_385040_30332190_T...], get a junction box, and wire it all together. This doesn't solve your problem of the $250/room cost, but if you'd like to use some other thermostats in your rooms this would work great. The only complaint I'd have about mine is that the relay is very loud. You might want to search for a quieter one.

maxerickson 13y ago
There are purpose built combination units: http://www.aubetech.com/products/list.php?noLangue=2&noFamille=3&app=20 http://www.aubetech.com/products/list.php?noLangue=2&noFamil... They apparently pay attention to how loud it is.

jonhohle 13y ago

Not only that, but basic, programmable load bearing thermostats are relatively expensive compared to the typical control line alternatives. However, even with basic programmable thermostats (>=$75 a piece), I saw my electrical bill drop considerably vs. a 30 year old mechanical thermostat in an apartment I lived in the past 4 years. We've moved since then and took the thermostats with us. I still have two if you want to buy some slightly used aube programmables (nothing with wifi, but better than nothing).

jusben1369 13y ago

Why do you have 8 thermostats? Is your house very very large? If true then is the personal cost to you of 8 Nest's really prohibitive?

j15e 13y ago
Very common in Europe & Canada
parfe 13y ago
Not large at all. One thermostat per room. With electric heat you have to put a thermostat in line between the circuit breakers and the heating element (radiant panels in my case). Centralizing the house on a single thermostat, like you would with forced air, would actually be incredibly difficult. It would also lose the benefit of fine control; one of the few positives of electric heat.
- aconbere 13y ago
  Worth pointing out (and you touch on this above) that this is not a function of electric heat but a function specifically of the type of electric heat (radiant in this case). I have electric heat by way of a ducted electric heat pump which is not zoned and thus centralized. Zoned ducted and non-ducted electric heat pumps both offer localized control over heating.
  - URSpider94 13y ago
    for what its worth, people in the trades would not consider a heat pump "electric heat", even though of course the power does come from electricity. electric heat refers specifically to heat generated by heating an element with current.
    - aconbere 13y ago
      Fascinating! (coming back to this late). What would the consider an electric heat pump, or what would they call it?

declan 13y ago

Nest thermostats seem to be around $250. If you want thermostats that you can control with Applescript, Perl, mobile apps, etc., check out these Insteon-based ones for $150: http://www.smarthome.com/2441TH/INSTEON-Thermostat/p.aspx http://www.smarthome.com/2441TH/INSTEON-Thermostat/p.aspx One problem with the Nest is that if your thermostat is in a poor location (more of a problem with central heating), the motion sensor won't see you. With the ones I suggested above, you can programmatically link those to ~$40 motion sensors installed in the correct locations that will actually work.

VLM 13y ago
I have one of those; it works pretty well. Before the Insteon was released I had a X10 thermostat which was somewhat cheaper. I worked around the "X10 is only 95% reliable" problem by having misterhouse set the temp every 5 minutes or whatever it was. The financial payback time is unfortunately infinite but it was interesting. One advantage of programming an insteon thermostat is its just plain old off the shelf technology to all end users including repair guys, although how its temp is set is magic and done by computer. Most of the software work is already done by the misterhouse system, its not like you have to write your own insteon drivers or write your own sensor drivers or whatever. Misterhouse's support for Insteon has varied a bit over the decades. Last time I had to mess with anything it was a little fuzzy. I would imagine things have advanced considerably in the last half decade or so. I do not currently have misterhouse controlling the insteon thermostat mostly out of lazyness, I'll eventually re-enable it.

george88b 13y ago

I have the exact same situation but I have spoken to Nest Customer Service and other "smart" thermostat CS and all have told me that they will not work with the wiring for electric heaters commonly controlled by a single dedicated mechanical thermostat. I was out of luck so if you find an working "smart" thermostat I would love to get one.