6 ms·

Why don't the tech companies just fund improvements to actual mass transit instead of the busses? It seems like in the long run, if they continue to grow, that

by gaadd33 13y ago

Why don't the tech companies just fund improvements to actual mass transit instead of the busses? It seems like in the long run, if they continue to grow, that would make far more sense.

russell_h 13y ago
This is California we're talking about. Public services are like black holes for money. The SFMTA (which is only one of many bay area transit agencies) has almost a billion dollar annual operating budget, and "usable" would be a generous term for their service.
justinzollars 13y ago
As a San Franciscan, mass transit really sucks. Busses are irregular, BART closes shortly after midnight and its connections are limited. MUNI trains were faster a century ago, and are often blocked in traffic as they share roads with cars? Being a pedestrian isn't any safer as we had a record number of car vs pedestrian deaths this year. We are massively under served.
pkteison 13y ago
It's not the sort of route that a mass transit system runs. This isn't going a few miles and stopping every few blocks. It's an express-style route, 1-way-at-a-time, to a location 40 miles away which nobody has any reason to go to unless they work there. To make a 40 mile run in an hour, a bus needs to do very few pickup stops in SF, drive nonstop to destination, then do very few drop off stops in Silicon Valley; then return empty to repeat. Same thing other direction for the evening trip. It's the sort of trip that only makes sense for a chartered coach, not a public bus. If the route was provided by the local muni bus, people would protest that too - that tech employees were getting special treatment, that a SF tax funded agency was serving geographic areas well outside of SF, that stops should be added at all the intermediate cities (doubling the length of the trip), the system would be more wasteful as buses would run empty on company holidays, and that the companies should directly provide those routes themselves since they only benefit them. The system presently in place actually makes far more sense than trying to expand muni because it's a very specific purpose and specific route.
- gaadd33 13y ago
  What about trains? I thought CalTrain ran down very near to most of the tech campuses, admittedly the companies would still need a minimal bus system to ferry people from the station to the office park.
  - pkteison 13y ago
    The tech companies already run shuttles to CalTrain, there are a lot of their employees who don't take that option because it would be a very very long commute from most neighborhoods in SF. CalTrain only has two stops in SF, both on the far east edge of the city. Buses cover more of the center of the city.
  - gkoberger 13y ago
    Caltrain picks up in only one location in SF (meaning employees would need to get to CalTrain), it takes over an hour from SF to Mountain View, has no WiFi, and drops off about 3 miles from the Google campus[1]. For a company with no shortage of money, a shuttle makes complete sense. [1] https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!4m17!3m13!1m1!1sMountain+View+Caltrain%2C+600+W+Evelyn+Ave%2C+Mountain+View%2C+CA+94041!1m1!1sAmphitheatre+Pkwy%2C+Mountain+View%2C+CA+94043!3m8!1m3!1d3677!2d-122.0770258!3d37.3946411!3m2!1i800!2i891!4f13.1!5m2!13m1!1e1&fid=0 https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!4m17!3m13!1m1!1sM... (EDIT: Added 3 mile source since someone below questioned it)
    - sbilstein 13y ago
      Google runs shuttles to the caltrain and it isn't three miles away from campus. Campus is huge; I see plenty of google employees on caltrain. There are 2 Caltrain stops in SF. The issue with Caltrain is that there are simply not enough trains running on it to ferry all the people who need to get to the South Bay. My ideal solution is better express routes through the city to the caltrain station and from there shuttles to the corporate campuses. We'd need some serious infrastructure improvements to the caltrain however. I wish companies were more willing to spend their lobbying money on pushing politicians to commit to infrastructure improvements that could benefit a broader stripe of the population then just their employees.
Meekro 13y ago
California already has crazy high state taxes, which these companies pay. That money was supposed to be funding things like mass transit. It gets wasted and public transit is still crap, but we're supposed to believe that if Google only paid even more, everything would suddenly get better?
waterlesscloud 13y ago
Or have a huge office where the employees live.
kabdib 13y ago
The politics around transportation in the Bay Area (and CA in general) are pretty bleak. BART still doesn't cover the south bay. The light rail in San Jose didn't go anywhere interesting for about a decade. Bus service is horrible. Sure, want to put more money into that sink, and see it wasted?
supersystem 13y ago
Why would companies that are so afraid of competition that they buy their aspiring rivals for billions willingly give up such a strategic advantage?

by gaadd33 13y ago

Why don't the tech companies just fund improvements to actual mass transit instead of the busses? It seems like in the long run, if they continue to grow, that would make far more sense.

russell_h 13y ago

This is California we're talking about. Public services are like black holes for money. The SFMTA (which is only one of many bay area transit agencies) has almost a billion dollar annual operating budget, and "usable" would be a generous term for their service.

justinzollars 13y ago

As a San Franciscan, mass transit really sucks. Busses are irregular, BART closes shortly after midnight and its connections are limited. MUNI trains were faster a century ago, and are often blocked in traffic as they share roads with cars? Being a pedestrian isn't any safer as we had a record number of car vs pedestrian deaths this year. We are massively under served.

pkteison 13y ago

It's not the sort of route that a mass transit system runs. This isn't going a few miles and stopping every few blocks. It's an express-style route, 1-way-at-a-time, to a location 40 miles away which nobody has any reason to go to unless they work there. To make a 40 mile run in an hour, a bus needs to do very few pickup stops in SF, drive nonstop to destination, then do very few drop off stops in Silicon Valley; then return empty to repeat. Same thing other direction for the evening trip. It's the sort of trip that only makes sense for a chartered coach, not a public bus. If the route was provided by the local muni bus, people would protest that too - that tech employees were getting special treatment, that a SF tax funded agency was serving geographic areas well outside of SF, that stops should be added at all the intermediate cities (doubling the length of the trip), the system would be more wasteful as buses would run empty on company holidays, and that the companies should directly provide those routes themselves since they only benefit them. The system presently in place actually makes far more sense than trying to expand muni because it's a very specific purpose and specific route.

gaadd33 13y ago
What about trains? I thought CalTrain ran down very near to most of the tech campuses, admittedly the companies would still need a minimal bus system to ferry people from the station to the office park.
- pkteison 13y ago
  The tech companies already run shuttles to CalTrain, there are a lot of their employees who don't take that option because it would be a very very long commute from most neighborhoods in SF. CalTrain only has two stops in SF, both on the far east edge of the city. Buses cover more of the center of the city.
- gkoberger 13y ago
  Caltrain picks up in only one location in SF (meaning employees would need to get to CalTrain), it takes over an hour from SF to Mountain View, has no WiFi, and drops off about 3 miles from the Google campus[1]. For a company with no shortage of money, a shuttle makes complete sense. [1] https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!4m17!3m13!1m1!1sMountain+View+Caltrain%2C+600+W+Evelyn+Ave%2C+Mountain+View%2C+CA+94041!1m1!1sAmphitheatre+Pkwy%2C+Mountain+View%2C+CA+94043!3m8!1m3!1d3677!2d-122.0770258!3d37.3946411!3m2!1i800!2i891!4f13.1!5m2!13m1!1e1&fid=0 https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!data=!4m17!3m13!1m1!1sM... (EDIT: Added 3 mile source since someone below questioned it)
  - sbilstein 13y ago
    Google runs shuttles to the caltrain and it isn't three miles away from campus. Campus is huge; I see plenty of google employees on caltrain. There are 2 Caltrain stops in SF. The issue with Caltrain is that there are simply not enough trains running on it to ferry all the people who need to get to the South Bay. My ideal solution is better express routes through the city to the caltrain station and from there shuttles to the corporate campuses. We'd need some serious infrastructure improvements to the caltrain however. I wish companies were more willing to spend their lobbying money on pushing politicians to commit to infrastructure improvements that could benefit a broader stripe of the population then just their employees.

Meekro 13y ago

California already has crazy high state taxes, which these companies pay. That money was supposed to be funding things like mass transit. It gets wasted and public transit is still crap, but we're supposed to believe that if Google only paid even more, everything would suddenly get better?

waterlesscloud 13y ago

Or have a huge office where the employees live.

kabdib 13y ago

The politics around transportation in the Bay Area (and CA in general) are pretty bleak. BART still doesn't cover the south bay. The light rail in San Jose didn't go anywhere interesting for about a decade. Bus service is horrible. Sure, want to put more money into that sink, and see it wasted?

supersystem 13y ago

Why would companies that are so afraid of competition that they buy their aspiring rivals for billions willingly give up such a strategic advantage?