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Towards the end of the film, they come to the conclusion that even though the collective mindset of NK citizens is changing, it won't necessarily result in a cu

Towards the end of the film, they come to the conclusion that even though the collective mindset of NK citizens is changing, it won't necessarily result in a cultural revolution. It seems the primary thing keeping real change from happening is that North Koreans can't trust their family friends to not turn them in, and if they do somehow know who to trust, they can't gather in groups to talk or organize any activities. This seems like a technical problem, no? What would a "social network" (for lack of a better term) look like that enabled citizens to feel each other out and establish a network of trusted individuals? Could it be made resilient to breaches? That is, if one person were to divulge their communications with the state, how could the damage be limited? It wouldn't even have to enable communication outside the border. It would be a boon if all it did was to let insiders organize over the country's cell network.

jlgaddis 13y ago
At some point, in order for change to actually occur, things would have to move "off-line" and people would be forced to meet in public, wouldn't they? Assuming the group had been infiltrated (or monitored), it seems like that might very well be the end of the group.
- lhl 13y ago
  I think that in the NK scenario, meeting offline would be one of the last things that would happen. Just being able to anonymously communicate with each other would be pretty revolutionary, as so much of the way the society functions is based on lies that unravel once people can access/share/discuss outside information. It seems like once there's enough popular support, it'd be a lot easier - there are a lot more of the populace than the ruling class? Cory Doctorow actually writes the most plausible scenario (and pitfalls) of bootstrapped online/offline coordination that I've read in Little Brother... based on how NK works, infiltration of any group, infiltration is probably a given. The real question would be whether the gov't could respond if the majority of the population were all conspiring in groups. Are there enough secret police to execute/arrest everyone all at once?
dominotw 13y ago
No. Because any action you take would endanger your whole family. This I think is the fundamental difference between North korean police state and other Stalinist regimes that crashed and burned in the 90's.
- dailyrorschach 13y ago
  Not just your current family, but your children and their offspring with the three generations punishment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaechon_internment_camp#Human_rights_situation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaechon_internment_camp#Human_r... So you’re entire current family is sent, and then the next two generations will be born and live and know only the internment camp as the world.

jlgaddis 13y ago

At some point, in order for change to actually occur, things would have to move "off-line" and people would be forced to meet in public, wouldn't they? Assuming the group had been infiltrated (or monitored), it seems like that might very well be the end of the group.

lhl 13y ago
I think that in the NK scenario, meeting offline would be one of the last things that would happen. Just being able to anonymously communicate with each other would be pretty revolutionary, as so much of the way the society functions is based on lies that unravel once people can access/share/discuss outside information. It seems like once there's enough popular support, it'd be a lot easier - there are a lot more of the populace than the ruling class? Cory Doctorow actually writes the most plausible scenario (and pitfalls) of bootstrapped online/offline coordination that I've read in Little Brother... based on how NK works, infiltration of any group, infiltration is probably a given. The real question would be whether the gov't could respond if the majority of the population were all conspiring in groups. Are there enough secret police to execute/arrest everyone all at once?

dominotw 13y ago

No. Because any action you take would endanger your whole family. This I think is the fundamental difference between North korean police state and other Stalinist regimes that crashed and burned in the 90's.

dailyrorschach 13y ago
Not just your current family, but your children and their offspring with the three generations punishment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaechon_internment_camp#Human_rights_situation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaechon_internment_camp#Human_r... So you’re entire current family is sent, and then the next two generations will be born and live and know only the internment camp as the world.