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> The DHS engaged in witness tampering (denying Dr Ibrahim and her witnesses access to the courtroom by putting the on the no-fly list) and argued that neither

by spodek 13y ago

> The DHS engaged in witness tampering (denying Dr Ibrahim and her witnesses access to the courtroom by putting the on the no-fly list) and argued that neither Dr Ibrahim nor her lawyers should be allowed to see the evidence against her I was going to write about the gross abuse of power and how we should change the people and the system but I think their thuggery is so obvious we don't have to belabor the obvious and the more appropriate thing to say is: What a bunch of assholes.

not_that_noob 13y ago
The TSA actually put her daughter on the no-fly list so she couldn't testify against the TSA at her mother's trial. This is egregious abuse of powers. There needs to be a congressional hearing and some firings. http://boingboing.net/2013/12/04/dhs-stalls-no-fly-list-trial-b.html http://boingboing.net/2013/12/04/dhs-stalls-no-fly-list-tria...
- mikeash 13y ago
  Firing seems remarkably mild, considering. If you or I did something like this, we would go to prison.
- middleclick 13y ago
  I am also curious to know why. Why did they go after her and pursued this case for eight years? Did they actually have proof or did it come down to their egos? Either way, this is unacceptable - putting her daughter on the no-fly list.
- greyfade 13y ago
  They shouldn't need to be fired. Witness tampering is a Federal felony offense. They should be stripped of their position and thrown bodily into prison, both for witness tampering and high treason.
colechristensen 13y ago
>What a bunch of assholes. While it might be true, the sentiment is entirely unhelpful and mirrors a fundamental problem with the reaction to these types of problems: there is nothing special about these people that makes them assholes. In fact, I'm proposing that any group of people put into these roles would behave exactly the same. When you put people into jobs, the – let's say architecture – of the organization they are put into has a drastic influence on their behavior (see the Stanford prison experiment) The question that should be asked is what's wrong with the architecture of these organizations that brings out the natural bad qualities of human behavior in average people?
- nwh 13y ago
  Not entirely at odds with the experimentation you quoted, I think it's perfectly within rights to call these people assholes. If they really had any conscience about the matter they would speak up or leave the job, seeing as they don't it's well within rights to refer to these actions as their own and hold them at least partially responsible.
  - colechristensen 13y ago
    Within rights, perhaps... helpful? no. Even prosecution and lawsuits, while necessary doesn't actually solve the problem and that's the point I'm trying to make. Being upset at individuals, suing and prosecuting, and all things of this sort miss the core of the issue and if you spend all your time concentrating on the superficial causes you'll never fix the actual problem.
- hippee-lee 13y ago
  Your thinking about the guard/prisoner scenarios and it's effect on people? Likely very true. But, I wonder if there are some types of people who actively seek those kinds of roles and others who actively avoid them. In some people, with all the information the might not participate. Idk - just thinking out loud, I am not aware of any research the back up my hunch.
- Lelouch 13y ago
  Employment at will. They can find other jobs. They're assholes for continuing employment in such corruption. I may even go so far to call you an asshole for defending them.

by spodek 13y ago

not_that_noob 13y ago

The TSA actually put her daughter on the no-fly list so she couldn't testify against the TSA at her mother's trial. This is egregious abuse of powers. There needs to be a congressional hearing and some firings. http://boingboing.net/2013/12/04/dhs-stalls-no-fly-list-trial-b.html http://boingboing.net/2013/12/04/dhs-stalls-no-fly-list-tria...

mikeash 13y ago
Firing seems remarkably mild, considering. If you or I did something like this, we would go to prison.
middleclick 13y ago
I am also curious to know why. Why did they go after her and pursued this case for eight years? Did they actually have proof or did it come down to their egos? Either way, this is unacceptable - putting her daughter on the no-fly list.
greyfade 13y ago
They shouldn't need to be fired. Witness tampering is a Federal felony offense. They should be stripped of their position and thrown bodily into prison, both for witness tampering and high treason.

colechristensen 13y ago

>What a bunch of assholes. While it might be true, the sentiment is entirely unhelpful and mirrors a fundamental problem with the reaction to these types of problems: there is nothing special about these people that makes them assholes. In fact, I'm proposing that any group of people put into these roles would behave exactly the same. When you put people into jobs, the – let's say architecture – of the organization they are put into has a drastic influence on their behavior (see the Stanford prison experiment) The question that should be asked is what's wrong with the architecture of these organizations that brings out the natural bad qualities of human behavior in average people?

nwh 13y ago
Not entirely at odds with the experimentation you quoted, I think it's perfectly within rights to call these people assholes. If they really had any conscience about the matter they would speak up or leave the job, seeing as they don't it's well within rights to refer to these actions as their own and hold them at least partially responsible.
- colechristensen 13y ago
  Within rights, perhaps... helpful? no. Even prosecution and lawsuits, while necessary doesn't actually solve the problem and that's the point I'm trying to make. Being upset at individuals, suing and prosecuting, and all things of this sort miss the core of the issue and if you spend all your time concentrating on the superficial causes you'll never fix the actual problem.
hippee-lee 13y ago
Your thinking about the guard/prisoner scenarios and it's effect on people? Likely very true. But, I wonder if there are some types of people who actively seek those kinds of roles and others who actively avoid them. In some people, with all the information the might not participate. Idk - just thinking out loud, I am not aware of any research the back up my hunch.
Lelouch 13y ago
Employment at will. They can find other jobs. They're assholes for continuing employment in such corruption. I may even go so far to call you an asshole for defending them.