5 ms·

Judge rules TSA no-fly procedures unconstitutional

84 points by not_that_noob 13y ago

spodek 13y ago
> The DHS engaged in witness tampering (denying Dr Ibrahim and her witnesses access to the courtroom by putting the on the no-fly list) and argued that neither Dr Ibrahim nor her lawyers should be allowed to see the evidence against her I was going to write about the gross abuse of power and how we should change the people and the system but I think their thuggery is so obvious we don't have to belabor the obvious and the more appropriate thing to say is: What a bunch of assholes.
- not_that_noob 13y ago
  The TSA actually put her daughter on the no-fly list so she couldn't testify against the TSA at her mother's trial. This is egregious abuse of powers. There needs to be a congressional hearing and some firings. http://boingboing.net/2013/12/04/dhs-stalls-no-fly-list-trial-b.html http://boingboing.net/2013/12/04/dhs-stalls-no-fly-list-tria...
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Firing seems remarkably mild, considering. If you or I did something like this, we would go to prison.
  - middleclick 13y ago
    I am also curious to know why. Why did they go after her and pursued this case for eight years? Did they actually have proof or did it come down to their egos? Either way, this is unacceptable - putting her daughter on the no-fly list.
  - greyfade 13y ago
    They shouldn't need to be fired. Witness tampering is a Federal felony offense. They should be stripped of their position and thrown bodily into prison, both for witness tampering and high treason.
- colechristensen 13y ago
  >What a bunch of assholes. While it might be true, the sentiment is entirely unhelpful and mirrors a fundamental problem with the reaction to these types of problems: there is nothing special about these people that makes them assholes. In fact, I'm proposing that any group of people put into these roles would behave exactly the same. When you put people into jobs, the – let's say architecture – of the organization they are put into has a drastic influence on their behavior (see the Stanford prison experiment) The question that should be asked is what's wrong with the architecture of these organizations that brings out the natural bad qualities of human behavior in average people?
  - nwh 13y ago
    Not entirely at odds with the experimentation you quoted, I think it's perfectly within rights to call these people assholes. If they really had any conscience about the matter they would speak up or leave the job, seeing as they don't it's well within rights to refer to these actions as their own and hold them at least partially responsible.
    - colechristensen 13y ago
      Within rights, perhaps... helpful? no. Even prosecution and lawsuits, while necessary doesn't actually solve the problem and that's the point I'm trying to make. Being upset at individuals, suing and prosecuting, and all things of this sort miss the core of the issue and if you spend all your time concentrating on the superficial causes you'll never fix the actual problem.
  - hippee-lee 13y ago
    Your thinking about the guard/prisoner scenarios and it's effect on people? Likely very true. But, I wonder if there are some types of people who actively seek those kinds of roles and others who actively avoid them. In some people, with all the information the might not participate. Idk - just thinking out loud, I am not aware of any research the back up my hunch.
  - Lelouch 13y ago
    Employment at will. They can find other jobs. They're assholes for continuing employment in such corruption. I may even go so far to call you an asshole for defending them.
saraid216 13y ago
Looks like a continuation of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6850408 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6850408
aeonsky 13y ago
Am I on USA-Today or Hacker News?
- middleclick 13y ago
  This issue affects all of us. Just because we are on Hacker News doesn't mean we ignore this Kafkaesque way of putting people on no-fly lists. Hackers do travel on airplanes :)
- peterkelly 13y ago
  HN has a voting system where readers decide what stories get to the top. Apparently a lot of people considered this both newsworthy and relevant to their interests.
  - aeonsky 13y ago
    "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics..." and "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." If we go with your logic, I would start posting and upvoting news coming from TMZ and the latest Casey Anthony updates.
kcorbitt 13y ago
Despite its imperfections, the US Constitution's very measured and explicit introduction of independent branches of government with checks and balances between them strikes me as one of the greatest political innovations of all time. It's right up there with representative rule.
- thrill 13y ago
  The Constitution also envisioned limited government.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- aestra 13y ago
  The United States did not invent that idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers
- saraid216 13y ago
  I'm just going to leave this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6661282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6661282
deleted 13y ago
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deleted 13y ago
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84 points by not_that_noob 13y ago

> The DHS engaged in witness tampering (denying Dr Ibrahim and her witnesses access to the courtroom by putting the on the no-fly list) and argued that neither Dr Ibrahim nor her lawyers should be allowed to see the evidence against her I was going to write about the gross abuse of power and how we should change the people and the system but I think their thuggery is so obvious we don't have to belabor the obvious and the more appropriate thing to say is: What a bunch of assholes.

not_that_noob 13y ago
The TSA actually put her daughter on the no-fly list so she couldn't testify against the TSA at her mother's trial. This is egregious abuse of powers. There needs to be a congressional hearing and some firings. http://boingboing.net/2013/12/04/dhs-stalls-no-fly-list-trial-b.html http://boingboing.net/2013/12/04/dhs-stalls-no-fly-list-tria...
- mikeash 13y ago
  Firing seems remarkably mild, considering. If you or I did something like this, we would go to prison.
- middleclick 13y ago
  I am also curious to know why. Why did they go after her and pursued this case for eight years? Did they actually have proof or did it come down to their egos? Either way, this is unacceptable - putting her daughter on the no-fly list.
- greyfade 13y ago
  They shouldn't need to be fired. Witness tampering is a Federal felony offense. They should be stripped of their position and thrown bodily into prison, both for witness tampering and high treason.
colechristensen 13y ago
>What a bunch of assholes. While it might be true, the sentiment is entirely unhelpful and mirrors a fundamental problem with the reaction to these types of problems: there is nothing special about these people that makes them assholes. In fact, I'm proposing that any group of people put into these roles would behave exactly the same. When you put people into jobs, the – let's say architecture – of the organization they are put into has a drastic influence on their behavior (see the Stanford prison experiment) The question that should be asked is what's wrong with the architecture of these organizations that brings out the natural bad qualities of human behavior in average people?
- nwh 13y ago
  Not entirely at odds with the experimentation you quoted, I think it's perfectly within rights to call these people assholes. If they really had any conscience about the matter they would speak up or leave the job, seeing as they don't it's well within rights to refer to these actions as their own and hold them at least partially responsible.
  - colechristensen 13y ago
    Within rights, perhaps... helpful? no. Even prosecution and lawsuits, while necessary doesn't actually solve the problem and that's the point I'm trying to make. Being upset at individuals, suing and prosecuting, and all things of this sort miss the core of the issue and if you spend all your time concentrating on the superficial causes you'll never fix the actual problem.
- hippee-lee 13y ago
  Your thinking about the guard/prisoner scenarios and it's effect on people? Likely very true. But, I wonder if there are some types of people who actively seek those kinds of roles and others who actively avoid them. In some people, with all the information the might not participate. Idk - just thinking out loud, I am not aware of any research the back up my hunch.
- Lelouch 13y ago
  Employment at will. They can find other jobs. They're assholes for continuing employment in such corruption. I may even go so far to call you an asshole for defending them.

saraid216 13y ago

Looks like a continuation of http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6850408 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6850408

aeonsky 13y ago

Am I on USA-Today or Hacker News?

middleclick 13y ago
This issue affects all of us. Just because we are on Hacker News doesn't mean we ignore this Kafkaesque way of putting people on no-fly lists. Hackers do travel on airplanes :)
peterkelly 13y ago
HN has a voting system where readers decide what stories get to the top. Apparently a lot of people considered this both newsworthy and relevant to their interests.
- aeonsky 13y ago
  "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics..." and "If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." If we go with your logic, I would start posting and upvoting news coming from TMZ and the latest Casey Anthony updates.

kcorbitt 13y ago

Despite its imperfections, the US Constitution's very measured and explicit introduction of independent branches of government with checks and balances between them strikes me as one of the greatest political innovations of all time. It's right up there with representative rule.

thrill 13y ago
The Constitution also envisioned limited government.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
aestra 13y ago
The United States did not invent that idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers
saraid216 13y ago
I'm just going to leave this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6661282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6661282

deleted 13y ago

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deleted 13y ago

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