5 ms·

I think the idea is that taste can be developed. A musician probably will like the sound best from a monitor, but someone who doesn't pay as much attention to s

by arebop 17y ago

I think the idea is that taste can be developed. A musician probably will like the sound best from a monitor, but someone who doesn't pay as much attention to sound has a less nuanced appreciation and taste. Cheaper speakers are often biased to exaggerate the qualities that are appealing to the majority (whose tastes are less refined), hence the scare quotes acknowledging the subjective interpretation of goodness.

SwellJoe 17y ago
I didn't actually intend to make actual speaker "goodness" into a factor in the discussion, but I see now that it seems to have done so; the scare quotes were to indicate that a non-engineer (even a musician who isn't also an engineer) would possibly prefer consumer speakers because they often smooth the sound and boost some frequencies often perceived as being "good". As you note, consumer speakers (at most price points under the obscenely expensive mark) tend to hype certain frequencies: bass and highs in particular. Folks hear it and think, "Wow, so bright and clear! And dig that bass! You can really feel it." Studio monitors do none of those things, on purpose. The job of studio monitors is not to lure a consumer at Best Buy into thinking this set of speakers is better because it is louder and brighter in a room full of noise. Their job is to accurately reflect what is on tape. So, engineers very rarely talk about whether monitors sound "good". The word engineers use as praise is "accurate". And, when they do use the word "good" in this context, they usually mean "accurate", where someone else probably means "hyped".
- shiranaihito 17y ago
  I've got a pair of Quested F11's (the sexy purple version) at home, and I think they sound really "good" :) They're the best investment I've ever made, but I'm just a music-enthusiast. I was roughly aware of the issues you brought up, and it was a very good and thorough explanation. I guess I just wanted to point out that there are even "normal people" out there who appreciate accuracy/quality in speakers. It's important to know that anyone can benefit from using studio monitors for listening to music. They reproduce music in such a lovely way - accurate, detailed and pleasant. Listen to your favourite music, but in a new way. Discover things you didn't know were there. Even - shall we say, despite the accuracy - there's plenty of bass to go around, and your studio monitors can put out insane levels of volume and still reproduce everything beautifully.
  - SwellJoe 17y ago
    Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). You'll get better accuracy and less hype (marketing and/or frequency response, or both) than from high end audio speaker manufacturers. I'm suspicious of most high end "audiophile" products, because there's so much superstition and snake oil surrounding the business. Magic cables that cost hundreds of dollars, electronics suspended to prevent vibrations from altering the sound (this is sane for speakers and mics, not sane for solid state electronics), light switch and cable jack covers that claim to improve the sound of the room, etc. All with obscene price tags. A good set of studio monitors and a good amp isn't cheap, but most of the money you spend goes towards important stuff; like high quality components and a good design. Folks are always amazed by the audio in my living room...it doubles as my office and home studio, and I have an obscenely overpowered Hafler amplifier driving a pair of Tannoy System 600 speakers. Those little speakers can shake the house, and they do it while being really precise and clear. I also have bass traps in all the corners and have made more than a passing attempt to make the room balanced and non-reactive, which is something most music consumers have never experienced (a good sounding room is at least as important as the speakers you put in it). It's still not exactly a studio experience, but it's pretty awesome for Rock Band Taco Night. I also just bought a projector and an 80" diagonal screen for our booth at OSCON next week...Rock Band Taco Night will never be the same.
    - shiranaihito 17y ago
      > Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). Right. This is what I keep telling anyone who's interested. Of course, most people are blissfully oblivious to quality (wrt. lots of things) My speakers are powered though. I'd have no idea what kind of amp to get. > Magic cables that cost hundreds of dollars A timeless classic :) Some time last year, I was investigating headphones, and came across a pair of Grados at some shop. I mentioned that the earpieces felt abrasive, and the "helpful" shop owner suggested I buy a pair of thicker, fluffier ones for around 50 euros. Yes, 50 euros for two pieces of foam or whatever. "THIS.. IS.. FINLAND!!" He claimed, with a straight face, that the headphones would sound better with the thicker earpieces too, "because they're shaped to better direct sound into your ears" .. :P > a good sounding room is at least as important as the speakers you put in it This is particularly unfortunate for me, since I live in a crummy apartment with concrete walls. There's not much I can do about acoustics, short of a considerable (and very costly) renovation. I bet your Rock Band Taco Nights are awesome :) By the way, what kind of headphones would you recommend? I'm leaning towards Beyerdynamic DT880(PRO?)'s.

by arebop 17y ago

SwellJoe 17y ago

I didn't actually intend to make actual speaker "goodness" into a factor in the discussion, but I see now that it seems to have done so; the scare quotes were to indicate that a non-engineer (even a musician who isn't also an engineer) would possibly prefer consumer speakers because they often smooth the sound and boost some frequencies often perceived as being "good". As you note, consumer speakers (at most price points under the obscenely expensive mark) tend to hype certain frequencies: bass and highs in particular. Folks hear it and think, "Wow, so bright and clear! And dig that bass! You can really feel it." Studio monitors do none of those things, on purpose. The job of studio monitors is not to lure a consumer at Best Buy into thinking this set of speakers is better because it is louder and brighter in a room full of noise. Their job is to accurately reflect what is on tape. So, engineers very rarely talk about whether monitors sound "good". The word engineers use as praise is "accurate". And, when they do use the word "good" in this context, they usually mean "accurate", where someone else probably means "hyped".

shiranaihito 17y ago
I've got a pair of Quested F11's (the sexy purple version) at home, and I think they sound really "good" :) They're the best investment I've ever made, but I'm just a music-enthusiast. I was roughly aware of the issues you brought up, and it was a very good and thorough explanation. I guess I just wanted to point out that there are even "normal people" out there who appreciate accuracy/quality in speakers. It's important to know that anyone can benefit from using studio monitors for listening to music. They reproduce music in such a lovely way - accurate, detailed and pleasant. Listen to your favourite music, but in a new way. Discover things you didn't know were there. Even - shall we say, despite the accuracy - there's plenty of bass to go around, and your studio monitors can put out insane levels of volume and still reproduce everything beautifully.
- SwellJoe 17y ago
  Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). You'll get better accuracy and less hype (marketing and/or frequency response, or both) than from high end audio speaker manufacturers. I'm suspicious of most high end "audiophile" products, because there's so much superstition and snake oil surrounding the business. Magic cables that cost hundreds of dollars, electronics suspended to prevent vibrations from altering the sound (this is sane for speakers and mics, not sane for solid state electronics), light switch and cable jack covers that claim to improve the sound of the room, etc. All with obscene price tags. A good set of studio monitors and a good amp isn't cheap, but most of the money you spend goes towards important stuff; like high quality components and a good design. Folks are always amazed by the audio in my living room...it doubles as my office and home studio, and I have an obscenely overpowered Hafler amplifier driving a pair of Tannoy System 600 speakers. Those little speakers can shake the house, and they do it while being really precise and clear. I also have bass traps in all the corners and have made more than a passing attempt to make the room balanced and non-reactive, which is something most music consumers have never experienced (a good sounding room is at least as important as the speakers you put in it). It's still not exactly a studio experience, but it's pretty awesome for Rock Band Taco Night. I also just bought a projector and an 80" diagonal screen for our booth at OSCON next week...Rock Band Taco Night will never be the same.
  - shiranaihito 17y ago
    > Actually I agree that folks who want a really great set of speakers probably should go for a reputable brand of studio monitors and appropriate amp (these days some studio monitors are powered and need no amp). Right. This is what I keep telling anyone who's interested. Of course, most people are blissfully oblivious to quality (wrt. lots of things) My speakers are powered though. I'd have no idea what kind of amp to get. > Magic cables that cost hundreds of dollars A timeless classic :) Some time last year, I was investigating headphones, and came across a pair of Grados at some shop. I mentioned that the earpieces felt abrasive, and the "helpful" shop owner suggested I buy a pair of thicker, fluffier ones for around 50 euros. Yes, 50 euros for two pieces of foam or whatever. "THIS.. IS.. FINLAND!!" He claimed, with a straight face, that the headphones would sound better with the thicker earpieces too, "because they're shaped to better direct sound into your ears" .. :P > a good sounding room is at least as important as the speakers you put in it This is particularly unfortunate for me, since I live in a crummy apartment with concrete walls. There's not much I can do about acoustics, short of a considerable (and very costly) renovation. I bet your Rock Band Taco Nights are awesome :) By the way, what kind of headphones would you recommend? I'm leaning towards Beyerdynamic DT880(PRO?)'s.