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You are not thinking from an average user point of view. They don't know what any of those words mean, and even if they did they couldn't handle them; even inst

by deletes 13y ago

You are not thinking from an average user point of view. They don't know what any of those words mean, and even if they did they couldn't handle them; even installing windows is impossible for most people.

pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
They don't have to know what those words mean. Most versions of Linux have everything that the average user needs right out of the box, and if most PCs were shipped with a popular user-friendly distro, 99% of people wouldn't even notice or care. Admittedly if you want to run native Windows programs that aren't available for Linux then you're kind of screwed. Wine usually does a pretty good job but it isn't usable by the average layman at all. But it's getting better. The only programs that aren't usable on Linux nowadays are basically games, MS Excel and Photoshop.
- jorts 13y ago
  Just curious, have you ever supported end users? My experience tells me that most people would freak out when presented with something as dissimilar as any linux variant after being a Windows user for a decade or more.
  - pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
    Really? I've installed it on a few relative's computers and they have all loved it and were able to pick it up completely on their own. Literally in one instance I installed ubuntu on my dad's laptop, and left the day after. He didn't even call me once for help on how to open something or do something (except for installing Skype, which he would have done anyway if it was a windows machine). It was all there. And these are people that don't know how to attach something to an email. IMO the biggest problem is getting the damn OS on the computer, everything after that is cake. Plus, pretty much every linux distro has a sort of "start" menu, and a taskbar. What kind of problems are you encountering?
    - jorts 13y ago
      As a basic example, I've experienced multiple users yell at me or my technicians (this was at a previous job) because the icons on their desktop changed locations. I can't imagine how they would have responded if their start menu looked different. While my mom is much nicer than many of these ex-customers treated technicians, she still struggles to grasp basic computing concepts such as traversing through Windows Explorer and copying and pasting pictures from her camera to her My Pictures folder. I can only fathom how she would react if I reformatted her laptop and installed linux on it.
      - 72deluxe 13y ago
        I would second this. Many office staff (who tend to be women) just use the computer because it is part of their job and don't learn their way around a system or learn the concepts of files etc. (I am not attempting to be sexist btw - just many people my wife work with in the office don't attempt to learn anything new and can't cope with basic changes to the system; they complain that Word isn't working because they have set the font to white and are typing onto a white background, for example. A web browser is "the Internet" and they don't know the difference between "Windows Explorer" and "Internet Explorer", and have no idea where their files are etc. etc. etc.) I can see why the iPad took off with its lack of usable file system from a user perspective, because you don't need to learn any of the stuff you would with a PC. Icons that have moved is the end of the world for some people. Putting Linux onto a desktop would be like the end of the universe, despite how easy we find it to use.
        pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
        You really did not have to mention that they were women in your post, that was totally unnecessary. And it is sexist, despite you're saying it isn't.
        72deluxe 13y ago
        Apologies, it wasn't meant to be sexist but I don't have a comparison. In my experience, all of the women I have worked with have less PC skills than women (and my wife does too); my wife will happily work stuff out but there seems to be a vast swathe of people who don't, and who switching to Linux would be like the end of the universe; that was more what I was trying to imply. This is not to say that there are many women who have skills that vastly outweigh men! EDITED: To stop blabbering. I would update my parent post too for less offence but I have left it too long; apologies.
- deletes 13y ago
  Where do you get those percentages? Having worked on tech support I can tell you that 99% of people aren't able to do more that click start menu and launch their favorite program. If the that is missing, they usually just give up and must be guided.
  - pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
    It's just a guess, based on my experience with exposing Linux to a handful of my extremely computer illiterate family members.
  - yen223 13y ago
    Sample bias. It's hardly surprising that people who have to call tech support aren't exactly tech maestros, but that's not necessarily representative of the general population.
    - jorts 13y ago
      After managing an outsourced IT firm for ~9 years, I've found that there are a huge amount of users, in a variety of industries, that function as deletes has stated.

by deletes 13y ago

pikachu_is_cool 13y ago

They don't have to know what those words mean. Most versions of Linux have everything that the average user needs right out of the box, and if most PCs were shipped with a popular user-friendly distro, 99% of people wouldn't even notice or care. Admittedly if you want to run native Windows programs that aren't available for Linux then you're kind of screwed. Wine usually does a pretty good job but it isn't usable by the average layman at all. But it's getting better. The only programs that aren't usable on Linux nowadays are basically games, MS Excel and Photoshop.

jorts 13y ago
Just curious, have you ever supported end users? My experience tells me that most people would freak out when presented with something as dissimilar as any linux variant after being a Windows user for a decade or more.
- pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
  Really? I've installed it on a few relative's computers and they have all loved it and were able to pick it up completely on their own. Literally in one instance I installed ubuntu on my dad's laptop, and left the day after. He didn't even call me once for help on how to open something or do something (except for installing Skype, which he would have done anyway if it was a windows machine). It was all there. And these are people that don't know how to attach something to an email. IMO the biggest problem is getting the damn OS on the computer, everything after that is cake. Plus, pretty much every linux distro has a sort of "start" menu, and a taskbar. What kind of problems are you encountering?
  - jorts 13y ago
    As a basic example, I've experienced multiple users yell at me or my technicians (this was at a previous job) because the icons on their desktop changed locations. I can't imagine how they would have responded if their start menu looked different. While my mom is much nicer than many of these ex-customers treated technicians, she still struggles to grasp basic computing concepts such as traversing through Windows Explorer and copying and pasting pictures from her camera to her My Pictures folder. I can only fathom how she would react if I reformatted her laptop and installed linux on it.
    - 72deluxe 13y ago
      I would second this. Many office staff (who tend to be women) just use the computer because it is part of their job and don't learn their way around a system or learn the concepts of files etc. (I am not attempting to be sexist btw - just many people my wife work with in the office don't attempt to learn anything new and can't cope with basic changes to the system; they complain that Word isn't working because they have set the font to white and are typing onto a white background, for example. A web browser is "the Internet" and they don't know the difference between "Windows Explorer" and "Internet Explorer", and have no idea where their files are etc. etc. etc.) I can see why the iPad took off with its lack of usable file system from a user perspective, because you don't need to learn any of the stuff you would with a PC. Icons that have moved is the end of the world for some people. Putting Linux onto a desktop would be like the end of the universe, despite how easy we find it to use.
      - pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
        You really did not have to mention that they were women in your post, that was totally unnecessary. And it is sexist, despite you're saying it isn't.
        72deluxe 13y ago
        Apologies, it wasn't meant to be sexist but I don't have a comparison. In my experience, all of the women I have worked with have less PC skills than women (and my wife does too); my wife will happily work stuff out but there seems to be a vast swathe of people who don't, and who switching to Linux would be like the end of the universe; that was more what I was trying to imply. This is not to say that there are many women who have skills that vastly outweigh men! EDITED: To stop blabbering. I would update my parent post too for less offence but I have left it too long; apologies.
deletes 13y ago
Where do you get those percentages? Having worked on tech support I can tell you that 99% of people aren't able to do more that click start menu and launch their favorite program. If the that is missing, they usually just give up and must be guided.
- pikachu_is_cool 13y ago
  It's just a guess, based on my experience with exposing Linux to a handful of my extremely computer illiterate family members.
- yen223 13y ago
  Sample bias. It's hardly surprising that people who have to call tech support aren't exactly tech maestros, but that's not necessarily representative of the general population.
  - jorts 13y ago
    After managing an outsourced IT firm for ~9 years, I've found that there are a huge amount of users, in a variety of industries, that function as deletes has stated.