4 ms·

Why So Many Musicians Are Leaving San Francisco for L.A.

batbomb 13y ago
I know Ty. Both him and my friend Peter (his roommate then, not sure if they are still living together) moved there more than a year ago, and they both are from the LA area. Mikal Cronin, who started playing with Ty a while back, was also from there. Some of it was money related, but most musicians I know live in Oakland anyway. Ty is so busy he's not really home that often anyways. I do think a garage is probably a step up. I know they couldn't play loud in their apartment in the inner richmond.
nkvl 13y ago
Anything to do with gentrification? edit: I couldn't figure out why I was a little confused reading this, but it's because there is no one coherent answer in this article. edit: I asked because the article doesn't answer that, aside from a small sampling. And the phase before this seems to be from only a couple of years ago ("Aaron Leitko wrote a 2011 Pitchfork feature about it called 'Positive Destruction'.") I don't know SF, but I've seen gentrification up close a few times in larger US cities, it usually takes longer. Hence my question.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  Try reading the article for once, and you just might be able to answer your own question.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
jjoe 13y ago
What's there in this story to decorticate that makes it HN worthy?
- batbomb 13y ago
  John Dwyer is talking about gentrification by his old house around Valencia and 17th, aka mission gentrification central. Of which, he recently criticized "techies" for leading. http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2014/01/here_is_what_thee_oh_sees_john.php http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2014/01/here_is_what_the...
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    If he spent a little while educating himself before making such comments in public, he'd know that the real problem is draconian zoning laws and NIMBYs. http://www.amazon.com/The-Rent-Too-Damn-High-ebook/dp/B0078XGJXO http://www.amazon.com/The-Rent-Too-Damn-High-ebook/dp/B0078X...
  - pradocchia 13y ago
    In a nutshell: San Francisco has long been filling up with noobs...but now we face the most dangerous, the most egregious and blandest of them all...people with lots of money. NOBODY can square-up a joint like rich people.
  - jseliger 13y ago
    As I wrote in this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7067752 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7067752 and elsewhere, the solution to rising prices (which is another way of saying "gentrification") is to increase supply. Or to decrease demand, but that seems unlikely to happen in SF in the near term.
themodelplumber 13y ago
"Seemingly overnight, [San Francisco] has filled up with phone-scrolling, blank-faced wanderers (particularly in my neighborhood). I prefer a taco to a vintage glasses store any day." I guess all those people I follow on Tumblr aren't real artists :-(
TrainedMonkey 13y ago
Key point of the article is that many artists can't afford SF anymore.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
nextstep 13y ago
San Francisco is fast becoming the most boring "big" city in America. Take a look at the boring office-park culture that SV is famous for; that is the future of SF. This change is inevitable as rents increase and the only people who can afford to live there are white and Asian males between 20-35 who work in tech. (I mean no offense by this comment. I fit into this demographic, but I will admit that as group overall middle class tech workers are culturally homogenous and thus incredibly bland.)
- jseliger 13y ago
  This change is inevitable as rents increase It's not inevitable; rather, it's because of a series of political choices. Steel and elevators are very old technologies and as such it's quite simple to increase the supply of dwellings on a given quantity of land. San Francisco's development rules mostly prohibit anyone from doing so, however, per Matt Yglesias's book The Rent Is Too Damn High (And What To Do About It) (see http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?ie=UTF8&tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?ie=UTF8&tag=thstsst-20&l...). In the face of constant supply and rising demand prices increases. Want to change that dynamic? Increase supply by building new stuff.
  - wwweston 13y ago
    I'm not so sure that a standard market approach to increasing supply really drives down or even stabilizes housing prices. I've been present at some significant housing supply buildouts in a few areas, and each time, my observation was that the price of new housing was somewhat above market rates... since it's brand new (and often "luxury" condos/apartments). Plus building costs for new stuff is financed in unamortized $RECENT_YEAR dollars rather than amortized $DECADES_PAST dollars. For land-constrained places like San Francisco, where the only way to increase supply is up, this dynamic is probably more true, since however old the tech is, it's a lot more capital intensive than stick framing. Where I have observed a decrease in price, it's never been because of supply increase. It's places like Detroit where demand drops, either because of economic stagnation/collapse, or where there's health/property hazards. This isn't to say they shouldn't build out/up in SF, just that I'm pretty sure that introducing rents musicians can afford is not going be as simple as changing development rules and letting private developers go at it.
triplesec 13y ago
TL;DR San Francisco is too expensive at the moment and you get more garage space in LA's cultural desert. And lots of bands move there and it's warmer. EDIT for clarification - I don't think it's a cultural desert: I think the article says this
- groby_b 13y ago
  I'm glad to know I'm living in a cultural desert. Looking at both the bands and the visual artists out here, we must have different usages of the word "desert" :)
  - kevincrane 13y ago
    Maybe he means it's a desert with culture. At least from my experience going to school down there, "desert" is pretty accurate for the climate/environment in LA.
    - tcdent 13y ago
      You're correct when it comes to some parts of the greater Los Angeles area; beyond the foothills that surround it and The Valley, but that's just because the city by that definition goes on forever. Los Angeles proper; downtown and the surrounding areas, have a great climate because of the onshore breeze that comes in through Santa Monica. The indigenous foliage (what's left of it) there and up into the foothills is quite varied, and with everything the inhabitants have planted over the years, can be quite dense in some areas (largely supported by water from elsewhere in the state). The extended areas as well, Angeles National Forest and the San Gabriel Mountains, can be comparable in density and recreation to forests across the nation.
  - towski 13y ago
    Well it's the musician who called it a creative desert. He'll learn soon enough that it's the desert where 90% of America's culture comes from. It's hard to understand without living there.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
mrharrison 13y ago
It is sad how SF is becoming a monoculture and it seemed to happen so quickly. I moved here only 4 years ago and when I was first here it was flush with weirdness, but now, that weirdness that made SF so fun and free minded, is all but gone.

I know Ty. Both him and my friend Peter (his roommate then, not sure if they are still living together) moved there more than a year ago, and they both are from the LA area. Mikal Cronin, who started playing with Ty a while back, was also from there. Some of it was money related, but most musicians I know live in Oakland anyway. Ty is so busy he's not really home that often anyways. I do think a garage is probably a step up. I know they couldn't play loud in their apartment in the inner richmond.

nkvl 13y ago

Anything to do with gentrification? edit: I couldn't figure out why I was a little confused reading this, but it's because there is no one coherent answer in this article. edit: I asked because the article doesn't answer that, aside from a small sampling. And the phase before this seems to be from only a couple of years ago ("Aaron Leitko wrote a 2011 Pitchfork feature about it called 'Positive Destruction'.") I don't know SF, but I've seen gentrification up close a few times in larger US cities, it usually takes longer. Hence my question.

w1ntermute 13y ago
Try reading the article for once, and you just might be able to answer your own question.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

jjoe 13y ago

What's there in this story to decorticate that makes it HN worthy?

batbomb 13y ago
John Dwyer is talking about gentrification by his old house around Valencia and 17th, aka mission gentrification central. Of which, he recently criticized "techies" for leading. http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2014/01/here_is_what_thee_oh_sees_john.php http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2014/01/here_is_what_the...
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  If he spent a little while educating himself before making such comments in public, he'd know that the real problem is draconian zoning laws and NIMBYs. http://www.amazon.com/The-Rent-Too-Damn-High-ebook/dp/B0078XGJXO http://www.amazon.com/The-Rent-Too-Damn-High-ebook/dp/B0078X...
- pradocchia 13y ago
  In a nutshell: San Francisco has long been filling up with noobs...but now we face the most dangerous, the most egregious and blandest of them all...people with lots of money. NOBODY can square-up a joint like rich people.
- jseliger 13y ago
  As I wrote in this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7067752 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7067752 and elsewhere, the solution to rising prices (which is another way of saying "gentrification") is to increase supply. Or to decrease demand, but that seems unlikely to happen in SF in the near term.

themodelplumber 13y ago

"Seemingly overnight, [San Francisco] has filled up with phone-scrolling, blank-faced wanderers (particularly in my neighborhood). I prefer a taco to a vintage glasses store any day." I guess all those people I follow on Tumblr aren't real artists :-(

TrainedMonkey 13y ago

Key point of the article is that many artists can't afford SF anymore.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

nextstep 13y ago

San Francisco is fast becoming the most boring "big" city in America. Take a look at the boring office-park culture that SV is famous for; that is the future of SF. This change is inevitable as rents increase and the only people who can afford to live there are white and Asian males between 20-35 who work in tech. (I mean no offense by this comment. I fit into this demographic, but I will admit that as group overall middle class tech workers are culturally homogenous and thus incredibly bland.)

jseliger 13y ago
This change is inevitable as rents increase It's not inevitable; rather, it's because of a series of political choices. Steel and elevators are very old technologies and as such it's quite simple to increase the supply of dwellings on a given quantity of land. San Francisco's development rules mostly prohibit anyone from doing so, however, per Matt Yglesias's book The Rent Is Too Damn High (And What To Do About It) (see http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?ie=UTF8&tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0078XGJXO?ie=UTF8&tag=thstsst-20&l...). In the face of constant supply and rising demand prices increases. Want to change that dynamic? Increase supply by building new stuff.
- wwweston 13y ago
  I'm not so sure that a standard market approach to increasing supply really drives down or even stabilizes housing prices. I've been present at some significant housing supply buildouts in a few areas, and each time, my observation was that the price of new housing was somewhat above market rates... since it's brand new (and often "luxury" condos/apartments). Plus building costs for new stuff is financed in unamortized $RECENT_YEAR dollars rather than amortized $DECADES_PAST dollars. For land-constrained places like San Francisco, where the only way to increase supply is up, this dynamic is probably more true, since however old the tech is, it's a lot more capital intensive than stick framing. Where I have observed a decrease in price, it's never been because of supply increase. It's places like Detroit where demand drops, either because of economic stagnation/collapse, or where there's health/property hazards. This isn't to say they shouldn't build out/up in SF, just that I'm pretty sure that introducing rents musicians can afford is not going be as simple as changing development rules and letting private developers go at it.

triplesec 13y ago

TL;DR San Francisco is too expensive at the moment and you get more garage space in LA's cultural desert. And lots of bands move there and it's warmer. EDIT for clarification - I don't think it's a cultural desert: I think the article says this

groby_b 13y ago
I'm glad to know I'm living in a cultural desert. Looking at both the bands and the visual artists out here, we must have different usages of the word "desert" :)
- kevincrane 13y ago
  Maybe he means it's a desert with culture. At least from my experience going to school down there, "desert" is pretty accurate for the climate/environment in LA.
  - tcdent 13y ago
    You're correct when it comes to some parts of the greater Los Angeles area; beyond the foothills that surround it and The Valley, but that's just because the city by that definition goes on forever. Los Angeles proper; downtown and the surrounding areas, have a great climate because of the onshore breeze that comes in through Santa Monica. The indigenous foliage (what's left of it) there and up into the foothills is quite varied, and with everything the inhabitants have planted over the years, can be quite dense in some areas (largely supported by water from elsewhere in the state). The extended areas as well, Angeles National Forest and the San Gabriel Mountains, can be comparable in density and recreation to forests across the nation.
- towski 13y ago
  Well it's the musician who called it a creative desert. He'll learn soon enough that it's the desert where 90% of America's culture comes from. It's hard to understand without living there.
anigbrowl 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

mrharrison 13y ago

It is sad how SF is becoming a monoculture and it seemed to happen so quickly. I moved here only 4 years ago and when I was first here it was flush with weirdness, but now, that weirdness that made SF so fun and free minded, is all but gone.