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The UX is great and a journalists everywhere will thank you. But outside of government websites I don't see how a lot of this is even legal, per se?

by phillmv 13y ago

pranade 13y ago
Thanks... yes, public data from governments is a great use case. Often a lot of apps built using scrapers will wind up driving up traffic/ sales a the source site so it's okay. We want to do responsible web scraping, so will respect webmasters robots.txt files to make sure it's legal.
- hartard 13y ago
  I love the execution, but I also see inherent problems. Robots.txt is just a convention to advise crawlers. I'm confident most sites explicitly state this is against their terms of service. You will encounter terms along the lines of: "Unauthorized uses of the Site also include, without limitation, those listed below. You agree not to do any of the following, unless otherwise previously authorized by us in writing: Use any robot, spider, scraper, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor, copy, or keep a database copy of the content or any portion of the Site."
  - pranade 13y ago
    You've got a valid point. We want to eventually create a space that allows responsible scraping - so webmasters can have access to analytics on what's being scraped and can explicitly turn off kimono APIs for their domains if they see fit. We also think there are use cases for people who own their own data. Often, APIs will provide a way for companies to streamline their internal app development and figure out what to expose to the developer community before investing in an expensive API deployment.
  - _delirium 13y ago
    The law isn't entirely blind to conventions, though. They don't guarantee anything, but if a court understood that there exists a convention for saying "no robots, please", and the robot operator in question followed it, then a court could well look less favorably on the damages claims of a website operator who didn't make use of the widely known convention.
eli 13y ago
I'm not sure scraping itself is illegal, depending on what you're doing with the data. (Though it may be against a site's Terms of Use which may be binding. IANAL.) I can tell you that on several occasions I've scraped commercial sites with the permission of the owner. They want me to have access to the data but don't have the time or ability to create a proper API.

The UX is great and a journalists everywhere will thank you. But outside of government websites I don't see how a lot of this is even legal, per se?

by phillmv 13y ago

The UX is great and a journalists everywhere will thank you. But outside of government websites I don't see how a lot of this is even legal, per se?

pranade 13y ago

Thanks... yes, public data from governments is a great use case. Often a lot of apps built using scrapers will wind up driving up traffic/ sales a the source site so it's okay. We want to do responsible web scraping, so will respect webmasters robots.txt files to make sure it's legal.

hartard 13y ago
I love the execution, but I also see inherent problems. Robots.txt is just a convention to advise crawlers. I'm confident most sites explicitly state this is against their terms of service. You will encounter terms along the lines of: "Unauthorized uses of the Site also include, without limitation, those listed below. You agree not to do any of the following, unless otherwise previously authorized by us in writing: Use any robot, spider, scraper, other automatic device, or manual process to monitor, copy, or keep a database copy of the content or any portion of the Site."
- pranade 13y ago
  You've got a valid point. We want to eventually create a space that allows responsible scraping - so webmasters can have access to analytics on what's being scraped and can explicitly turn off kimono APIs for their domains if they see fit. We also think there are use cases for people who own their own data. Often, APIs will provide a way for companies to streamline their internal app development and figure out what to expose to the developer community before investing in an expensive API deployment.
- _delirium 13y ago
  The law isn't entirely blind to conventions, though. They don't guarantee anything, but if a court understood that there exists a convention for saying "no robots, please", and the robot operator in question followed it, then a court could well look less favorably on the damages claims of a website operator who didn't make use of the widely known convention.

eli 13y ago

I'm not sure scraping itself is illegal, depending on what you're doing with the data. (Though it may be against a site's Terms of Use which may be binding. IANAL.) I can tell you that on several occasions I've scraped commercial sites with the permission of the owner. They want me to have access to the data but don't have the time or ability to create a proper API.