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Side question: don't other people also have serious issues with the practice of using tracking software that take screenshots, or even worse, webcam shots? Whe

by nnq 13y ago

Side question: don't other people also have serious issues with the practice of using tracking software that take screenshots, or even worse, webcam shots? When I was freelancing I quickly refused a lot of potentially well paying jobs because of the requirement to use such monitoring software (their loss imho...). I don't have a problem with video-chatting with an employer about anything, or even with a temporary screen-share during a testing task or interview process, but having my actual work monitored like this felt like a total invasion of "my space". I don't know about you, but doing it this "big brother-ish" way feels very demeaning and I refuse to work for people that treat me like that and I hate it that it's starting to become a "standard" nowadays, at least for "low level" work.

AhtiK 13y ago
Using tracking software is insulting. It is usually for the same reason why physical stores are full of cameras -- making sure you do not steal. In the case of software development stealing as in making sure you are not using your time for the benefits of the client. One can argue that any version control system that is used frequently enough is also a tracking software. In this case as long as your client is not stalking your commit logs to come up with made-up excuses not to pay; and you are actually doing your work (not spending some of the client-paid time for hobby projects) that should be perfectly fine. Which makes me think that these days tracking software should become much less relevant for honest purposes because git, hg etc distributed VCSs encourage very fast and frequent commits.
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  It's probably for non technical clients who wouldn't know how to read a commit log, but could probably tell the difference between code on the screen and facebook. oDesk also offers a ton of other stuff from code like data entry,design etc.
InformalRelief 13y ago
During college I had a job in a coffee shop, and one day after a slow afternoon the bossman came in and later called me over to his computer, where he was reviewing his CCTV footage, and said "Look at how long it took you to make this cappucino, this is simply unacceptable!". I walked out.
- caprad 13y ago
  Now imagine if your family relied on you having this job? How awful would that be.
  - InformalRelief 13y ago
    Yup. And to be honest, the surveillance was not even the worst part, the guy was just generally a shitbag. But yeah, considering all the scandals and such involving corporations spying on employees, it's probably safe to say that it's mostly the most vulnerable people who have to put up with it. But IT freelancing is probably too much of a niche for there to be any public outrage about stuff like spying on contractors.
donnfelker 13y ago
I can see why folks would be opposed to this type of software. I'm not a fan of it either except for the use during the initial interviews and reviewing work. After the contractor gains my trust I never check the screen logs and half (if not more) of my contractors do not not even use the software. They enter time as "manual".
_delirium 13y ago
It feels like it'd be hard to get work done that way too, unless you could somehow manage to forget that it was taking place. I can't really do much serious work when someone is standing behind me looking over my shoulder. If it's genuinely interactive or collaborative, sure: if they're looking over my shoulder because I'm showing them something, or they're helping me to do something, then sure. But standing behind me just "monitoring" me as I work solo? Sorta a creepy situation, and more than a bit distracting.
krapp 13y ago
Yes, very much. But at least with Elance and their tracker, any time not accounted for with a screenshot doesn't have to be paid.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
logn 13y ago
I worked for a year with sporadic screen-shots and webcam shots on oDesk. I don't like webcam shots but I found screen-shots to improve my productivity actually.
kranner 13y ago
What would you say about an application-specific tracker? i.e. software that only takes screenshots of your work in a specific app, e.g. Xcode, and never of the desktop or any other window. Let's say this is for personal use and not any big-brother scenarios. It periodically saves screenshots of a particular app, keeping only those screenshots that differ from the previous one and making in effect a compressed-time screencast of your work in that app. This is something I've thought about making but I'm not sure how many people would find it useful. Any votes?
- HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
  I still wouldn't use it. Then again, I wouldn't take a "bill by the hours" contract. I stopped visiting RentACoder when it was clear that this was where most of the work was going. If I tell you I'll deliver something for $xxx, by mm/dd/yyyy then I'll deliver it for $xxx by mm/dd/yyyy. It shouldn't matter whether it takes me an hour or a week, as long as you get it for the agreed price by the agreed date.

by nnq 13y ago

AhtiK 13y ago

Using tracking software is insulting. It is usually for the same reason why physical stores are full of cameras -- making sure you do not steal. In the case of software development stealing as in making sure you are not using your time for the benefits of the client. One can argue that any version control system that is used frequently enough is also a tracking software. In this case as long as your client is not stalking your commit logs to come up with made-up excuses not to pay; and you are actually doing your work (not spending some of the client-paid time for hobby projects) that should be perfectly fine. Which makes me think that these days tracking software should become much less relevant for honest purposes because git, hg etc distributed VCSs encourage very fast and frequent commits.

jiggy2011 13y ago
It's probably for non technical clients who wouldn't know how to read a commit log, but could probably tell the difference between code on the screen and facebook. oDesk also offers a ton of other stuff from code like data entry,design etc.

InformalRelief 13y ago

During college I had a job in a coffee shop, and one day after a slow afternoon the bossman came in and later called me over to his computer, where he was reviewing his CCTV footage, and said "Look at how long it took you to make this cappucino, this is simply unacceptable!". I walked out.

caprad 13y ago
Now imagine if your family relied on you having this job? How awful would that be.
- InformalRelief 13y ago
  Yup. And to be honest, the surveillance was not even the worst part, the guy was just generally a shitbag. But yeah, considering all the scandals and such involving corporations spying on employees, it's probably safe to say that it's mostly the most vulnerable people who have to put up with it. But IT freelancing is probably too much of a niche for there to be any public outrage about stuff like spying on contractors.

donnfelker 13y ago

I can see why folks would be opposed to this type of software. I'm not a fan of it either except for the use during the initial interviews and reviewing work. After the contractor gains my trust I never check the screen logs and half (if not more) of my contractors do not not even use the software. They enter time as "manual".

_delirium 13y ago

It feels like it'd be hard to get work done that way too, unless you could somehow manage to forget that it was taking place. I can't really do much serious work when someone is standing behind me looking over my shoulder. If it's genuinely interactive or collaborative, sure: if they're looking over my shoulder because I'm showing them something, or they're helping me to do something, then sure. But standing behind me just "monitoring" me as I work solo? Sorta a creepy situation, and more than a bit distracting.

krapp 13y ago

Yes, very much. But at least with Elance and their tracker, any time not accounted for with a screenshot doesn't have to be paid.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

logn 13y ago

I worked for a year with sporadic screen-shots and webcam shots on oDesk. I don't like webcam shots but I found screen-shots to improve my productivity actually.

kranner 13y ago

What would you say about an application-specific tracker? i.e. software that only takes screenshots of your work in a specific app, e.g. Xcode, and never of the desktop or any other window. Let's say this is for personal use and not any big-brother scenarios. It periodically saves screenshots of a particular app, keeping only those screenshots that differ from the previous one and making in effect a compressed-time screencast of your work in that app. This is something I've thought about making but I'm not sure how many people would find it useful. Any votes?

HeyLaughingBoy 13y ago
I still wouldn't use it. Then again, I wouldn't take a "bill by the hours" contract. I stopped visiting RentACoder when it was clear that this was where most of the work was going. If I tell you I'll deliver something for $xxx, by mm/dd/yyyy then I'll deliver it for $xxx by mm/dd/yyyy. It shouldn't matter whether it takes me an hour or a week, as long as you get it for the agreed price by the agreed date.