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I haven't logged in to comment in a while. But this one got me. I for one am now a fan of Zed. While you sit and fuss over his words and his public outbursts, I

I haven't logged in to comment in a while. But this one got me. I for one am now a fan of Zed. While you sit and fuss over his words and his public outbursts, I wonder what open source software you have written that has half the impact that his work has? My curiosity is why do people really hate Zed? Is it because he says things that hit at the core of their insecurities? Or is it simple jealousy? I honestly don't think it's because he's wrong.

howradical 17y ago
Exactly. I enjoyed reading his thoughts on the GPL/BSD.
- grandalf 17y ago
  so did I actually. What I love most about open source is that there are multiple licenses to choose from -- actually closed source is yet another type of license :) That's why it's called freedom. To some extent the drama is silly b/c there is a license for everyone... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss the merits of various licenses.
grandalf 17y ago
I love Zed. I wrote that to help him gain additional publicity.
- clintjhill 17y ago
  I guess I missed the sarcasm. But being a smug prick sometimes causes me to miss a lot of things. EDIT: Sincerely - sorry. I get the sarcasm.
  - clintjhill 17y ago
    Since when does an apology get down voted?
zimbabwe 17y ago
Let me respond as somebody who was the target of one of Zed's rants. When Zed gets into one of his little rantboxes, he absolutely refuses to listen to the other side. He's very often right, but he's not comprehensively right, which is to say, he makes good points and he makes shitty points, and he frequently refuses to acknowledge his errors. Furthermore, he's got a holier-than-thou stance in which Zed is on the cause of Good and Sanity and the person he's decided to rant against is scum. The man is incredibly immature when he gets into those states. He ignores all evidence going against him, doesn't listen to his debaters, and proceeds as if everybody on the planet other than him is shit-filled. I think he's very bright but do wish he'd learn to act his age. While you sit and fuss over his words and his public outbursts, I wonder what open source software you have written that has half the impact that his work has? People's having done certain things doesn't exempt them from being judged. Did Zed stop from insulting DHH during his whole Rails rant? Because I'm pretty sure Rails is used more than anything Zed may have added on to it. I'm not blaming Zed for attacking DHH, but the whole "I did shit" defense is paltry and lame. Is it because he says things that hit at the core of their insecurities? Or is it simple jealousy? A lot of smug pricks like to use that word, "insecurities", as if every time somebody gets pissed off at them for being a blowhard it's due to insecurity. Myself, I don't write for open source, I'm not a huge fan of the open source community, I'm not much of a programmer at all. I just think he's a prick. I may be a jealous person, but let's be honest, I'm jealous of people who are far more successful than Zed. He's a minor Internet celebrity at best. I reserve my jealousies for 37signals-level celebrities at the least.
- clintjhill 17y ago
  Been a while since I've been called a smug prick. Thanks!
  - zimbabwe 17y ago
    I'm sorry, I didn't know that there was a better term for the guy that suggests people don't like Zed Shaw because he's better than them and they're jealous, when the man in question used to title his site "ZED'S SO FUCKING AWESOME" and spent his time telling people they could suck his dick. Responding to multiple people with the snide "I guess I'm a smug prick" doesn't help things either.
embeddedradical 17y ago
zed's done good work, no quarrels with him - but this was hilarious. after a week of issues with gpl, i'm not going to link to gpl stuff because i don't want to be gpl, maybe we should give open source authors free shwag like t-shirts, and all that --- this is actually a funny attempt at a solution (satire of course but accomplishes solving the problem: getting credit to the authors of good bsd software without having to switch to gpl, can't be taken too seriously, but hey, it works!). the problem zed brought up is one worth thinking about, and this convo revolves around his name and works as the example case, i see this a satire for the convo more than a satire of zed personally -- i don't know tho... but thats my reaction. i hope he laughs too - it is, in the end, poetically funny that it started with, i need some attention for what i do, and now him as open source maker is headlines for a week....(once again, because it's a convo worth having)...
iuguy 17y ago
Oh hi, His rants and software has had zero impact on me. I don't use Mongrel, Lamson, Rails or any of the shit he punts. Sorry, his rants have had more than zero impact on me. They've had +1 impact because I've had to put up with his rants being posted on HN and voted up by people. Sorry if the above sounds harsh, but I don't really care about Zed. I don't see him as some contributor to open source stuff that I don't use. I see him as some guy that clogs up my RSS reader. That is all. He's no different to Mike Arrington from where I sit.
tsally 17y ago
It's because he's frequently right, and has little patience for people that can't hack it. He expects a higher level of coding maturity and complexity than most people do. Zed's attitude results in a less welcoming image but a higher level of technical expertise. Whether that is a good thing or not in the long run is an open question in my mind. I usually can't stand people like that, but there are two reasons why I like him. First, if someone finds a bug in his code or shows (with proof) that he did something wrong, he takes it just as well as he gives it. And second, he actually writes some pretty damn good code. I think we need more people like him. There are too many ex PHP turned Rails developers who assume just because they can deploy a decent web app that they know everything. Hell, some of Zed's most vocal disagreements have been about performance. Zed actually knows his stuff and can back up his point of view with statistics. Most Rails developers on the other hand have no idea about some of the computer science concepts needed to talk about performance in an informed way. Zed's got a lot of public opinion against him. Just watch some of his keynotes to get a better idea of what he is actually like.
randallsquared 17y ago
You don't have to hate Zed to love this. :)

howradical 17y ago

Exactly. I enjoyed reading his thoughts on the GPL/BSD.

grandalf 17y ago
so did I actually. What I love most about open source is that there are multiple licenses to choose from -- actually closed source is yet another type of license :) That's why it's called freedom. To some extent the drama is silly b/c there is a license for everyone... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss the merits of various licenses.

grandalf 17y ago

I love Zed. I wrote that to help him gain additional publicity.

clintjhill 17y ago
I guess I missed the sarcasm. But being a smug prick sometimes causes me to miss a lot of things. EDIT: Sincerely - sorry. I get the sarcasm.
- clintjhill 17y ago
  Since when does an apology get down voted?

zimbabwe 17y ago

Let me respond as somebody who was the target of one of Zed's rants. When Zed gets into one of his little rantboxes, he absolutely refuses to listen to the other side. He's very often right, but he's not comprehensively right, which is to say, he makes good points and he makes shitty points, and he frequently refuses to acknowledge his errors. Furthermore, he's got a holier-than-thou stance in which Zed is on the cause of Good and Sanity and the person he's decided to rant against is scum. The man is incredibly immature when he gets into those states. He ignores all evidence going against him, doesn't listen to his debaters, and proceeds as if everybody on the planet other than him is shit-filled. I think he's very bright but do wish he'd learn to act his age. While you sit and fuss over his words and his public outbursts, I wonder what open source software you have written that has half the impact that his work has? People's having done certain things doesn't exempt them from being judged. Did Zed stop from insulting DHH during his whole Rails rant? Because I'm pretty sure Rails is used more than anything Zed may have added on to it. I'm not blaming Zed for attacking DHH, but the whole "I did shit" defense is paltry and lame. Is it because he says things that hit at the core of their insecurities? Or is it simple jealousy? A lot of smug pricks like to use that word, "insecurities", as if every time somebody gets pissed off at them for being a blowhard it's due to insecurity. Myself, I don't write for open source, I'm not a huge fan of the open source community, I'm not much of a programmer at all. I just think he's a prick. I may be a jealous person, but let's be honest, I'm jealous of people who are far more successful than Zed. He's a minor Internet celebrity at best. I reserve my jealousies for 37signals-level celebrities at the least.

clintjhill 17y ago
Been a while since I've been called a smug prick. Thanks!
- zimbabwe 17y ago
  I'm sorry, I didn't know that there was a better term for the guy that suggests people don't like Zed Shaw because he's better than them and they're jealous, when the man in question used to title his site "ZED'S SO FUCKING AWESOME" and spent his time telling people they could suck his dick. Responding to multiple people with the snide "I guess I'm a smug prick" doesn't help things either.

embeddedradical 17y ago

zed's done good work, no quarrels with him - but this was hilarious. after a week of issues with gpl, i'm not going to link to gpl stuff because i don't want to be gpl, maybe we should give open source authors free shwag like t-shirts, and all that --- this is actually a funny attempt at a solution (satire of course but accomplishes solving the problem: getting credit to the authors of good bsd software without having to switch to gpl, can't be taken too seriously, but hey, it works!). the problem zed brought up is one worth thinking about, and this convo revolves around his name and works as the example case, i see this a satire for the convo more than a satire of zed personally -- i don't know tho... but thats my reaction. i hope he laughs too - it is, in the end, poetically funny that it started with, i need some attention for what i do, and now him as open source maker is headlines for a week....(once again, because it's a convo worth having)...

iuguy 17y ago

Oh hi, His rants and software has had zero impact on me. I don't use Mongrel, Lamson, Rails or any of the shit he punts. Sorry, his rants have had more than zero impact on me. They've had +1 impact because I've had to put up with his rants being posted on HN and voted up by people. Sorry if the above sounds harsh, but I don't really care about Zed. I don't see him as some contributor to open source stuff that I don't use. I see him as some guy that clogs up my RSS reader. That is all. He's no different to Mike Arrington from where I sit.

tsally 17y ago

It's because he's frequently right, and has little patience for people that can't hack it. He expects a higher level of coding maturity and complexity than most people do. Zed's attitude results in a less welcoming image but a higher level of technical expertise. Whether that is a good thing or not in the long run is an open question in my mind. I usually can't stand people like that, but there are two reasons why I like him. First, if someone finds a bug in his code or shows (with proof) that he did something wrong, he takes it just as well as he gives it. And second, he actually writes some pretty damn good code. I think we need more people like him. There are too many ex PHP turned Rails developers who assume just because they can deploy a decent web app that they know everything. Hell, some of Zed's most vocal disagreements have been about performance. Zed actually knows his stuff and can back up his point of view with statistics. Most Rails developers on the other hand have no idea about some of the computer science concepts needed to talk about performance in an informed way. Zed's got a lot of public opinion against him. Just watch some of his keynotes to get a better idea of what he is actually like.

randallsquared 17y ago

You don't have to hate Zed to love this. :)